supra5677
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posted May 07, 2006 01:52 PM
190 rwhp on an std correction factor
   
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 08, 2006 07:37 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 8 May 2006 08:44
For 1199cc and stock cams? I think you will need bigger cams and then more compression to match the cams and then try to make the peak about 11,200 rpms.
Its not going to be easy... quite expensive to put pistons and cams in and keep it 1199cc.
A 1270-1290 set of pistons will do better than 190 hp and be cheeper, and run better down low.
Anyway, stock injectors will work for 190 hp. Its been done many many times and the corrct a/f ratio was obtainable.
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supra5677
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posted May 09, 2006 10:01 AM
It appears that the 04-05 zx12r flow 385-395cc per minute.. Plenty of gas and better atomization.. THis is probably the direction Im going to go.. Iv'e also heard of the later B models making more power with pipes and pc3rs.........
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VincentHill
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posted May 09, 2006 10:48 AM
quote:
It appears that the 04-05 zx12r flow 385-395cc per minute.. Plenty of gas and better atomization.. THis is probably the direction Im going to go.. Iv'e also heard of the later B models making more power with pipes and pc3rs.........
I do not know of anyone that has done more testing that Y2KZX12R! I personally think he has see the limit on what tuning will do for a 1199 cc engine
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supra5677
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posted May 09, 2006 10:56 AM
Im doing tuning and cam timing passed the 11625 rev limiter.. Of course 90% of what Im doing I learned from Y2K..
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 09, 2006 11:26 AM
I think its an issue of $$$ and time more than "can" 1199 make 190hp. At some point the cost becomes an issue.
The thing to remember is that as you tune an engine to produce more and more topend HP you WILL loose power at the lower rpms and driveability on the street.
Dont think a 220-230 hp motogp bike would be fun to ride on the street, keeping the rpms below, lets say, 8000 rpms. It would be horrendous in city traffic. You would not like it.
Thats an extreme example but still holds true.
I'm sure you could actually get 200 rwhp from a 1199cc 12r engine. I'm sure it could be done with the factory head casting. It would take alot of testing and hard parts like cams, pistons, and you would have to rev it to a "displacement over time" of 1.67 cfm per HP.
The higher you rev the engine the higher the "displacement over time" is.
Thats how a motogp engine makes 230 hp. Because its displacement over time is = to an engine of much larger displacement. There is no possable way to make a motogp 990 cc engine make more hp than a zx12r 1199cc engine if both engines can only rev to 10,500 rpm. The 12r engine is too good (excelent VE at peak powr). To make the 990 cc engine make peak power at 10,500 the cams would need to be changed (much smaller than current gp)and the VE wouldnt be much more than the 12r's VE. so the displacement loss couldnt be overcome.
Once a stock cammed and piston zx12r reaches low 180's for RWHP you will fight tooth and nail for each single hp you try and get.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. I dont wat to sound pessimistic or negative on this but dont waste your time and money supra. If you want 190 rwhp, you can do it for under $1000 and save yourself alot of headaches. But if your like me and half the fun of owning a motorcycle is taking the engine apart and you enjoy it, then its all good. 
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supra5677
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posted May 09, 2006 12:06 PM
I feel ya.. There was a guy on here with similar set up to mine.. He had high comp gasket, filers, ignition, pipe and pc3r, and velocity stacks.. 190RWHP.. All this with the stock rev limiter..
Iv'e timed the cams and the ignition to make peak power at a higher rpm..So Im confident to hit my target 190 horsepower mark. Don't plan on taking the engine apart again. Only messing the with the ecu etc.. thx
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 09, 2006 01:35 PM
Who was that guy? I'd like to see that. I'd bet big cash that a stock cammed and piston 12r wont make 190SAE rwhp on a dj250 on pump gas. Remember, any HP comparison numbers have to be SAE to correct for conditions or they are useless numbers.
A 12r like Vincents or mine that made 181 or so hp might be 190 on VP MR9 or would get close to 190. But thats not pump gas. I'll bet he either used MR9 or fudged the correction factor for the runs.
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supra5677
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posted May 09, 2006 01:39 PM
not SAE Y2k im talking STD the same correction factor muzzy uses. SAE net reads 4.4% lower than STD so 181 SAE is about 188.96 STD..
I'll go back on the postings and tell youy where it is. Give me some time I got some papers to correct.
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supra5677
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posted May 09, 2006 01:44 PM
Okay Y2K.. its under Y2K mods posted on December 25,2005.. as a response
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VincentHill
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posted May 09, 2006 01:50 PM
I actually made 183.1 HP SAE on Pump Gasoline. Std HP should be over 190 and with oxygenated fuel and Std HP I might have made 200. 183.1 plus 6 (Highest figure I have seen for Oxygenated fuel) 189.1 then x 0.056 (?? WHat ever the correction factor difference betrween STD and SAE) adds 10.589 plus 189.1 = 199.689. Real close but like my Land Speed Racing, there is a big difference between 199 and 200 
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supra5677
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posted May 09, 2006 08:26 PM
Good numbers.. the standard correction factory is 4.4%. So 183.1 equals 191.15 Std!!!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 10, 2006 02:01 AM
I just went back and looked at my final tune with 105/103 cam timing before I advanced the cams and fly cut the pistons.... 189.8 STD hp.
I'm not used to looking at STD hp, I didnt realize that the difference was that great.
Uncorrected I had a few 192.x hp runs that same day. That particular dyno was outside and the runs were done in the early am on a very clear dry day. So the sae correction factor took power away.
So for 190 STD hp you wont need larger injectors. Spend your money on dyno time.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 11, 2006 02:14 AM
Vince, whats your current conbo with your 12r now?
You have done more now havent you?
I'd love to get to maxton one of these times. I just dont have any freekin time......
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VincentHill
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posted May 11, 2006 06:49 AM
quote:
Vince, whats your current conbo with your 12r now?
You have done more now havent you?
I'd love to get to maxton one of these times. I just dont have any freekin time......
I have given up on the set up I had period! I do not know enough and just plain tired of working on it! So I have moved the Nozzles to in front of the throttle bodies like a lot of people do. I will be testing the new set up tonight and see if I have "FINALLY" got the power it is supposed to make for the amount of time it is supposed to make it!
NA I am "Down" to about 160 to 170 HP (CP Flat topped pistons at about 10 .2 to 1 and Brock / Hindle 4-2-1 Sidewinder). I am not racing that thing until I see a substained and repeatable 310 to 325 HP. I have full Data acquisition with Wide Band O2 sensor for A/F, RPM, TPS, Duty Cycle, Air Box Temp, and MAP. I am carring a 5 pound bottle with Heater and a 20 amp battery to supply it. Also using Chuck Wilburn NOS Pressure Controller.
I temporarly removed the Bypass Fuel Regulator which removed the lean spikes, but will return to it after testing tonight.
I guess I have not been up to much since I got the ZRX1100 and did a "Little" work on it to get 140 HP out of it and just having fun riding it around! Also I bought a Newer Van since the Deer and I had it out and had to fix a lot of things on it to make it useable for taking the bike "Places" 
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 11, 2006 07:31 AM
Sounds like you've been busy.
What do you figure your top speed will be at maxton with 325 hp?
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VincentHill
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posted May 11, 2006 08:31 AM
quote:
Sounds like you've been busy.
What do you figure your top speed will be at maxton with 325 hp?
All I want is for the Bike with Randall to go 211 and me 212 and join the 200 MPH CLub and then let Randall see how fast it will go! I would love to see 220 out of the bike and then like my wife said last night "Once you set your record, you will be putting the bike back to stock and finding something else to get into"! The Worst part is, there is actually some truth in what she was saying
I person I know has a 1980 KZ1000 like I used to race and wante me to ride it in Vintage class at Nelson Ledges where I became 4th ranked Amature in the the country for AMA 250 CC class. Who knows, maybe after riding some Road Race maybe I can get a bike and ride Daytona again?? (I still have my Experts license ) Old People just never know what to get into!
Enough of Switching on this Thread.
I actually thought about the Muzzy exhaust and if I had his system, I would shorten the Secondary tubes (Maybe 4 inches) to try to smooth out Midrange!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 11, 2006 09:01 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 11 May 2006 10:02
quote:
I actually thought about the Muzzy exhaust and if I had his system, I would shorten the Secondary tubes (Maybe 4 inches) to try to smooth out Midrange!
Yoshimura pipes have awsome midrange. They have VERY short secondarys as well as 1-4/2-3 crossover tubes and a choke in the midpipe. Great for the street.
But a 4-1 header with a short unchoked mid pipe might be worth a few more ponies up top but at the cost of huge low to midrange power loss. But for dragracing I dont think you can beat a 4-1 for top end power. You might want to try a 4-1 for top speed runs Vince. ???
Its been a long time sence i've been on a road course. Where is Nelson Ledges? doesnt sound familiar.
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VincentHill
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posted May 11, 2006 12:21 PM
Outside of Warren Ohio not that far from Youngstown Ohio exit 14 off the Ohio Turnpike
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flite leader
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posted May 22, 2006 03:29 PM
your idle lope has nothing to do with injector size
tuning the lope out can be accomplished with power commander
altho part of the problem is the EPA mandate
for extreme lean idle parameters
typically where most fuel is wasted
you can get it right with a sniffer
if the fuel air ratio is right
the lope may Not disappear...................but
you can be assured no harm is being done to the engine
if the engine picks up from idle & pulls
off strongly from a light....................really all you can ask for
if its annoying.....put stock pipe back on
good luck
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or break your ass...!!
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