your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted April 26, 2006 12:07 PM
so how is it out of all the ways to increase fuel delivery to the cylinder at idle....you feel that swapping out the injectors on the 12 is the best option?
   
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted April 26, 2006 12:14 PM
...and why is idle so important?
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted April 26, 2006 04:54 PM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 26 Apr 2006 17:56
I just ment the ecu isnt capable of very much correction and cant correct itself and cant be reprogramed and.... not that it cant run the engine. but once you have seen whats out there you realize that bikes need real computers.
This is the software I used (use) on my 02 Camaro SS LS-1 It has an ATI procharger (8 psi) and 42# lucas/delphi injectors among other stuff. This software is awsome. Nothing compares on the market for GM stuff. Pricey at $500 but well worth it. I couldnt begin to tell you everything you can change in the computer. Hundreds of things can be changed including the entire operating system in the PCM. And you dont need any plug in or add on hardware. Just uploads, scans, and downloads to the diagnostic port. It data logs many channels at once.
So, what i ment was, you get used to working with somthing like this and then you work with this nipendenso primitive stuff and you get frustrated because you cant do shit.
http://www.hptuners.com/
I havent played with a motec myself. I know people that have and use them and tuned motec units for turbo porsches etc. Very pricey hardware.
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supra5677
Pro
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posted April 26, 2006 06:09 PM
interesting...
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 26, 2006 09:27 PM
supra,
Interesting? What's interesting is why you keep asking the same effing question trying to find another answer just because you don't like the CORRECT ONE!
You ask a question. We answer it. You pay no attention.
Some questions have answers. Endeavor to understand, don't just ignore and re-postulate..... Internal combustion engines hold very few mysteries anymore. Especially to those of us that have been dicking with them for a half a century.
PLEASE! We want to help you. 
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 27, 2006 07:47 AM
ok 
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted April 27, 2006 04:10 PM
Good. we got that solved!
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Ozzy
Needs a job
need guberment cheese
Posts: 3172
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posted April 30, 2006 05:17 AM
well said Doug!
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mlb
Novice Class
Posts: 48
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posted May 01, 2006 01:58 AM
The biggest problem I see with adding bigger injectors is that the factory computer, like was mentioned above, runs a flat map of x throttle at x rpm = x pulse width based on the factory injector. Obviously as soon as you put in a bigger injector for the same pulse width you get more gas, so that being said if you knew you needed a flat 10% more EVERYWHERE that might be ok if you were willing to get custom made 287.625CC injectors (I pulled that number out of my butt so don't quote me on it) but that static change across the board isn't what's required for any pipe at any elevation etc.
To me the idle issue is just a caracteristic of the pipe either you can live with it or not. Everything in life is give and take me personally I'll take the lope in return for the performance, look , and sound I get from the Muzzy system. Being a harley guy as well I paid a lot of money to get that in my other bike and to be honest I think it's kinda cool the 12 does it so well on it's own. As for ridability in my experience either you just need to spend some more time on a dyno to even it out or if it's still to bad to ride then you should look into an electric scooter I hear they're pretty smooth.
Doug correct me if I'm wrong here but if you put in larger injectors you would DEFINATELY need at least a pc and would actually be better off going to a standalone system since the PC is still limited as to how much it can add or subtract from the pulse width. Aren't the factory injectors good to around 250-300 HP?
I don't mean to start any arguments here (especially since I post so infrequently) just my .02.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 03, 2006 07:16 AM
mib,
Correctamundo
A PC and a re-map will work fine as long as the injectors are within the range of proper duty cycle for the HP level. Stock injectors (and a PC) will work, but are not optimum, up to about 200hp.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 03, 2006 07:29 AM
The zx12r is rated at 191 ps at the crank with ram air.. this equals a 308cc injector.. Gues what the stock size injector is? 310-320.. get pass 200 crank horsepower including ram air and something has to give...
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
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posted May 03, 2006 11:38 AM
quote:
The zx12r is rated at 191 ps at the crank with ram air.. this equals a 308cc injector.. Gues what the stock size injector is? 310-320.. get pass 200 crank horsepower including ram air and something has to give...
just... choke yourself.
____________
Some day, you're going to run out of some days
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted May 03, 2006 11:46 AM
So... did you put a bigger injector on yet supra?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 04, 2006 09:44 AM
Ya Im working on it. Superbike Mike did something to the crystal in my ecu. No reprogramming only telling the ecu how to tell time differently. As a result my ecu' srev limit is 5% more, the injector pulse is 5% less, and the timing is 2 percent advanced.
I have to keep in mind also my bmc race filter, 105/103 cam timing, and my thin head gasket. Right now im runnning an akra. Im also working with a guy on this board to reverse engineer the ecu directly. Too many projects. I had to send an injector to marren injectors so they can match something that I can plug in directly.
So right now my bike is running 5 percent leaner than stock, and more with the bmc race filter. Im probably going to use an injector in the 350-355cc range and then tune with the pc3r. I'll do this until i can tune to the ecu directly.. Give or take a year..
supra
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 04, 2006 12:31 PM
he replace it with one made of dilithium?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 04, 2006 12:52 PM
I don't know. But from what I understand the process is not repgramming the ecu, but rather changing how the ecu sees time.. This wasn't what I was hoping for, but the best that they could do. My goal is to interface with the ecu directly with ignition timing and injector pulse at all throttle positions and at all rpm's, to maximize performance at all levels. rpm also..
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 04, 2006 01:41 PM
quote:
Supra
The stock injector size is sufficient for the small increase of flow required by the addition of a pipe. Just look at the duty cycle on the PC III read out. The numbers are right there.
If you're referring to the lopey and hunting idle, that is caused by the lower back pressure of the Muzzy exhaust. Do a search. it's been explored and explained to death.
D.
Maybe more like the Death of Jesus?  The difference is he arose from the Dead only once!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 04, 2006 01:57 PM
quote:
I don't know. But from what I understand the process is not repgramming the ecu, but rather changing how the ecu sees time.. This wasn't what I was hoping for, but the best that they could do. My goal is to interface with the ecu directly with ignition timing and injector pulse at all throttle positions and at all rpm's, to maximize performance at all levels. rpm also..
good luck with that....why not buy a standalone ecu.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 04, 2006 07:02 PM
Motec system very expensive.. This way is a lot cheaper just plug in directly and interface..
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 04, 2006 08:05 PM
muzzy dta box can be had for 500 bucks or so on ebay.
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
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posted May 04, 2006 09:43 PM
Not for nothing... but if you're dealing with Superbike Mike.... you deserve all the problems you get.
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Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 05, 2006 10:37 AM
agreed Superbike Mike over charge me for my ecu mod.. Iv'e seen the same mod for 200 bucks on this board, I paid well over that...he'll never get my business again..
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 06, 2006 03:18 AM
Supra, After i get the bike mapped and dynoed we'll see if the injectors are up to the task of 200+? hp. As long as I can keep the desired a/f ratio then I'll be happy. We'll see.
Whats your HP goal anyway?
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 07, 2006 09:01 AM
190 at the weel STD
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted May 07, 2006 01:45 PM
quote:
190 at the weel STD
190 what????
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