jaws12r
Novice Class
Posts: 45
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posted March 27, 2006 04:43 AM
master lube accumulator
hi guys can anyone explain wat is this Master lube accumulator? did a search but could not find and results wat is this used for and where can i get it ?? Do muzzys have them ??
  
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park12r
Expert Class
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posted March 27, 2006 05:44 AM
 Edited By: park12r on 27 Mar 2006 05:48
http://www.masterlube.net/home.asp
muzzys have this -
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX12_Dry_Sump/index.html
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your car is slow
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posted March 27, 2006 07:02 AM
spencercycle and or madmike both carry them.
I have one on my turbo 12.
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MadMike
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posted March 27, 2006 08:30 AM
They basiclly are an external Oil source usually 2 qt, and it is pressurized, so anytime your oil pressure goes below "x" amount, it will activate and pressureize your system. let's say 25psi... if you have "catastrophic" oil pump failure, the accumulator will only prolong the event, unless you can shut down before the oil light comes on. it will give you 8-10 seconds of oil pressure...
I will write more about it later...
MM
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Y2KZX12R
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posted March 27, 2006 02:49 PM
Also they are great for turbos. You can shut the engine off right after beating the engine hard. You need to add a few little chack valves in the lines to the turbo and the engine oil source. But basically the accumulator supplies cool oil under pressure to the turbo bearings after the engine is shut off. The check valves keep it from pressurizing the oil system in the engine. The turbo bearings dont "coke" up anymore and the turbo bearing life is MUCH, MUCH better.
So its ideal to have two on a turbo application so the engine has one also.
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MadMike
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posted March 27, 2006 08:07 PM
and one of the main things is if you have any oil pressure drop at all due to launch/cavatation or anything like that it will supply any oil under whatever amount of pressure you set it at. the main dissadvantage is it is large and bulky...
MM
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jaws12r
Novice Class
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posted March 28, 2006 05:15 AM
ok i sort of get it now , will this thing help in the longevity of the stroker crank? Since most of wat i read about in crank failures are oil starvation to the Rods ? anyway thanks guys for ur quick replies
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Y2KZX12R
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posted March 28, 2006 05:26 AM
I dont see why a stroker crank would have any oiling issues different from a standard stroke crank.
I think its more of an issue of who puts the engine together and how well they check the clearances. Simply checking the oil clearances with plastiguage is not acceptable.
The accumulator would help for guys that like to starve the crank of oil on a regular basis. As in, guys that like to do long wheelies.
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posted March 28, 2006 06:51 AM
or people who launch at the dragstrip (uncovering the stock pickup).....as well as rapid decelleration (also uncovering the pickup).
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jaws12r
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posted March 28, 2006 07:39 AM
okie got it guys was worrying bout the oil starvation issue for some time thanks again guys
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posted March 28, 2006 07:58 AM
I dont even know where you would be able to mount the tank on a stock wheelbase bike...
sideways under the arm perhaps....yikes...that would stick out a good bit.
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted June 19, 2007 05:20 AM
Just been reading about these accumulators.
Use on a stroker.
How big is the oil/air cylinder?
Is a modded sump as good after start up? (as with MMikes)
Anyone used one?
Got any photos of an install?
Where would it plumb into? filter housing?
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted June 19, 2007 04:17 PM
bump
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dougmeyer
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posted June 20, 2007 08:50 PM
Seth,
Go to masterlube.net Their web site has a large FAQ which will answer most of your questions. These are very good units if you can't manage a proper sump or dry sump. They're used a lot on cars and boats where side load g's can unport a pickup briefly.
One of the beauties of the system is that they "self recover" and are ready for the next occurance of pressure drop. They are very simple and "automatic".
When at Muzzys I sourced these, we used them until the proper dry sump kit was developed. The need arose when the bikes started leaving hard enough to unport the pickup and momentarily starve the bearings. The bearings usualy didn't fail right away, but after a few launches they would eat themselves up and toast a rod. The small uit has a tank about the size of a 1lb fire extinguisher which needs to be mounted vertically.
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted June 21, 2007 01:35 AM
Doug
Thanks for that. =)
Would I be right in thinking you connect the accumulator to the oil filter/cooler/housing on a 12r?
Any idea on price, as theres none on the masterlube website?
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dougmeyer
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posted June 21, 2007 03:45 PM
I think they run about $300. Mad Mike do you remember?
No, I think you plumb it into the case oil galley plug. Don't remember without looking.
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rgeorge
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posted June 21, 2007 06:39 PM
I have never heard of this but it sounds like a good idea
I might try to build one myself.
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rgeorge
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posted June 21, 2007 08:01 PM
Edited By: rgeorge on 21 Jun 2007 21:04
Now that I think about it.,I have a couple concerns about this setup.
CONCERN 1:
Suppose I sit at near idle for a while; like in between pulls on the dyno.
Because of the low engine speed the system pressure will be low.
The tank will release oil into the oil galley until enough volume is released from the take to make its air pressure equal to the oil galley pressure.
Then, I begin another pull on the dyno. engine speed increases and galley oil pressure jumps.
Because oil galley pressure is significantly higher than tank pressure, there will be significant flow from the galley to the tank.
How much of the oil flows too the engine and how much flows to the tank?
WILL OIL STARVATION OCCUR DURING THIS TRANSIENT?
CONCERN 2:
The instructions on their site say to fill to 1/2 capacity with oil and then pressurize the tank to max expected oil pressure.
Suppose I filled the tank halfway then pressurized it to 80psi(gauge pressure, 94.7psi absolute).
If I am cruising at certain high engine speed such that the oil galley pressure is 80psi, the system is steady-state (no flow to or from the tank) and the tank is half full of oil.
Then I slow down to a very low engine speed for a while.
There will be a pressure differential and the tank will release oil into the oil galley.
Because of the ideal gas law; the volume of air in the tank will double when the absolute pressure is reduced to 47.3 psia (32.6 psig).
Therefore, assuming negligible volume in the line and fittings; the tank will inject all of its oil and then air into the oil galley whenever galley pressure is less than 32psi.
WILL AIR INJECTED INTO THE GALLEY DISPLACE THE OIL FLOWING TO SOME (OR ALL) OF THE BEARINGS?
CONCERN 3:
The ZX-12R engine is known to be "very oil level sensitive".
During low engine speeds, much (or all) of the oil from the tank is transfered to the engine as shown in concern 2.
If the tank holds one quart, it would be like the engine is overfilled by one quart at low engine speeds.
HOW MUCH POWER WOULD BE ROBBED AT LOW ENGINE SPEEDS?
Would the engine even run with that much oil?
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Seth ZX12r UK
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posted June 22, 2007 03:30 AM
rgeorge from what I understand of it you would set it at a PSI =X which is the lower end of the range.
Say 20psi, as soon as the oil pressure rises above that, the cylinder would back fill to original pressure, until it dropped to 20psi again.
As you say it holds a quart of oil.
It would only push enough oil to raise the pressure then stop, which could be say just half a quart, less or more.
There again I could be completely wrong.
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dougmeyer
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posted June 23, 2007 07:47 AM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 23 Jun 2007 08:50
rgeorge, without going into detail, all your concerns are unfounded.
These units and others like them have been used on all kinds of race vehicles from cars to aircraft for 40 years. They are as simple as they look and do what they are intended to do without negative "side effects" other then the obvious weight and packaging issues. No need to re-engineer.
I will mention this, there is a little more to the oil/air movement than you are assuming. The system uses a unique "floating check valve" to keep the air where it belongs.
Doug
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rgeorge
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posted June 23, 2007 10:02 AM
Edited By: rgeorge on 23 Jun 2007 11:07
Thanks Doug,
I do not doubt that the Master lube accumulator works well when set up correctly.
The reason I made the long-drawn-out list of concerns is because I partially regretted what I said in my first post. "I might try to build one myself."
I do not want everyone to run down to the hardware store and try to put one of these together without thinking about what problems they could encounter.
Anyone who tries to do ANY homemade modification to their oiling system should consider ALL the consequences.
Rob
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dougmeyer
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posted June 23, 2007 02:35 PM
Glad you cleared that up. I WAS afraid you you were actually thinking about a DIYS attempt.
Now that I have a minute, I'll explain how the check valve prevents the occurance of the things you mentioned. There is a ball, maybe an inch in diameter that floats inside a vertical cage on top of the oil in the accumulator tank. At the base of this cage, the bottom of the tank looks like a funnel with a seal around the circumference of the exit. As the oil level goes down with the air pressure forcing it out the bottom of the "funnel", the ball contacts the seal and keeps the air from pushing all the oil out and introducing air into the engine. When the oil pump begins pumping again the oil comes back into the tank, lifting the ball off the orfice. Very simple and foolproof.
Doug
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