CrotchRocket
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Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted November 28, 2005 05:47 PM
Supra...The ETs you mentioned about what R. Gadson ran are a thing of the past...He has bested those ETs with just a pipe as I have too...With the mods I mentioned above you'd be surprised how fast the 12s really go with a 60" wheelbase...
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supra5677
Pro
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posted November 29, 2005 08:49 AM
I appreciate all you guys knowledge and input. If bigger is always better than why does a 1198 83by 55.4 zx12r make more horsepower than suzukis 81 by 83 1298 engine? Kawasaki has always made more power pound for pound with smaller engines. Example ZX9r 2000, vs R1 and comparable to the black bird.(All within the 130-134 range) If the bikes are within 100cc of displacement I think the higher revving motor with higher compression would be the better motor. Any thoughts?
Example 1287 zx12r with 13.5-1 compression
vs 1352 ZX14 with 12.7-1 Compression
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supra5677
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posted November 29, 2005 08:52 AM
excuse me on the Suzuki its 81 by 63!!!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 29, 2005 05:37 PM
Yea I agree in part. Hp is a function of rpm. Thats why the 990 cc gp motors are making 220 hp. They are revving them to the moon. But that setup would make a bad street bike. The power below peak torque is piss poor. As in real bad. But who cares, Hayden doesnt, he never see's that rpm area.
Add some stroke and lengthen the rod and you gain back torque under the peak at the cost of peak hp and rpm. Nothin is free. Except less frictional losses with a short stroke engine, thats free. This topic is exactly why they keep moving the bore and stroke around on the R1. Trying to find the sweet spot.
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Y2KZX12R
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GUNNER
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posted November 29, 2005 06:03 PM
 Edited By: GUNNER on 29 Nov 2005 18:04
Hey man I see that velocity has a new turbo kit out for the 10R. 3995.00 or something like that. only double what a good header and all the crap that goes with that cost. Hmmmmmm???
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 30, 2005 03:03 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 30 Nov 2005 03:03
Interesting... hows the quality of the kits? has anyone on here seen one?
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Y2KZX12R
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 30, 2005 08:45 AM
when I do go in my motor I'll probably do a 2.5mm bore pistons from Muzzy and a 1.1mm stroke from my crank guy.. this will give me exactly 1298cc and move my peak torque a little closer to 7,000rpms.
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GUNNER
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posted November 30, 2005 10:01 AM
quote:
Interesting... hows the quality of the kits? has anyone on here seen one?
Pics on their Web Page..
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GUNNER
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posted November 30, 2005 11:10 AM
Y2k .......I talked to them today it makes 215 on pump gas and 6psi. 230 with water injection or race gas and 8 psi. With the new ignition module and a little less timing up top I'll guess you could do a little better than that.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 04, 2005 09:47 AM
215 hp, not bad. I bet it would be hard to keep that nose down...!!
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Y2KZX12R
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gunner
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posted December 04, 2005 10:15 AM
eh, probably so but a man can always deal with too much power. Ya just don't turn the loud handle all the way untill she can handle the noise. As it turns out also Mr. Muzzy has chimed in and said he also has a 10R kit he can put together for the same money as Velocity. He has indicated that he'll try and update his web site this week to reflect more of his products. Mr Muzzy's employees cost him mucho dollars by their sorry phone skills when guys like me call to inquire about products and get talked DOWN to. Maybe with this being brought to his attention he'll polish up his boots on a few sorry ass's
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 21, 2005 03:32 PM
The jury is in.
The old 2000 12r is going to get a Muzzys 1375 kit, and some head work.
I just cant like that zx14. As much as I tried. Its just pathettic. Sence i wear a vanson 1 piece race suit, boots gloves etc. 99% of the time I ride (with just cause) I would look like a moron wearing it on the 14. Even black on black.
So its official. Kawis styling cost 1 sale of the zx14. Too bad because the 14 engine has potential i'm sure. But after alot of math and thought, the 1375 will make more rwhp than the 14, even with a pipe. Ant with racetech springs and valves the suspension will still be better than the soft factory springs.
So stay tuned... more to come.
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aliveagain
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posted December 21, 2005 03:41 PM
To bad you weren't into a drag boat for Bantum lake!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 21, 2005 04:10 PM
Funny you say that. Back about 20 years ago... I had a 17 foot Baja with a 225 hp merc black max. Of course i did plenty of work to it. I put a jacking plate on it with a low water pickup, it spun a 30 pitch 14.5" hoss trident chopper prop. I used to race the small block and big block chevy jet boats on lake zoar and lilinoah... at that time there was no speed limits on those lakes. It wasnt uncommon back then to see boats ripping down those lakes at nasty speeds. That Baja was absolutely nasty fast. And i mean nasty fast. The big stickers on the engine said it was a 150 hp.  I cant remember any jet boat ever passing that Baja. It was quite a site to see a 150 foot rooster tail coming off that thing all wound up.
Those were the days...
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Y2KZX12R
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gunner
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posted December 21, 2005 04:34 PM
quote:
The jury is in.
The old 2000 12r is going to get a Muzzys 1375 kit, and some head work.
I just cant like that zx14. As much as I tried. Its just pathettic. Sence i wear a vanson 1 piece race suit, boots gloves etc. 99% of the time I ride (with just cause) I would look like a moron wearing it on the 14. Even black on black.
So its official. Kawis styling cost 1 sale of the zx14. Too bad because the 14 engine has potential i'm sure. But after alot of math and thought, the 1375 will make more rwhp than the 14, even with a pipe. Ant with racetech springs and valves the suspension will still be better than the soft factory springs.
So stay tuned... more to come.
So when are we ordering our parts? Thanks for making up my mind for me
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gunner
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posted December 21, 2005 07:12 PM
Hey Jim have you looked at the 1400 kit that Jay over at APE has put together for the 12?
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osti33
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posted December 21, 2005 07:20 PM
quote:
Hey Jim have you looked at the 1400 kit that Jay over at APE has put together for the 12?
If you put Carillo rods in a stroker 12 you will have to cut down the starter gear. Not a big deal really. Just a heads up. 
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gunner
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posted December 21, 2005 07:46 PM
I was reading over at Phycho bike and Jay says he cuts that gear on every 12 crank he strokes. Just for good measure
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 22, 2005 06:48 AM
OSTI33, Yea I saw thier kits. I'm not going to rev it high enough to need carillo rods. I may do some drag racing at some point but its mostly going to be tuned for "road race" street type riding.
I'm not sure who Muzzys has do thier cranks but I'll ck to see of they cut the gear for future carillo rod use. Thanks for the tip.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 24, 2005 05:51 AM
No they dot cut the gear for carillo rods.
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Y2KZX12R
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gunner
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posted December 24, 2005 06:21 AM
I'm also told they don't Nitride the cranks either.
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entropy
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posted December 24, 2005 07:37 AM
Edited By: entropy on 24 Dec 2005 07:45
quote:
I was reading over at Phycho bike and Jay says he cuts that gear on every 12 crank he strokes. Just for good measure
Gunner,
I don't know how cutting the gear on the crank (which is driven by the starter gear) would help give clearance for the Carillo's???? The rod interfers with the starter gear, not the crank gear.
Like Osti says, triming the starter gear is no big deal. Takes a good machinist 30min tops.
A pretty solid rumour has it that Marine Crankshaft does Muzzy's 4.6mm cranks. Marine has done 3 repairs for me, all EXCELLENT customer service.
As far as nitriding the Muzzy 4.6mm cranks?
Call David Eden at Marine Crankshaft and ask him: 949 222 9006
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 24, 2005 10:08 AM
Thanks guys.
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Y2KZX12R
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gunner
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posted December 24, 2005 02:25 PM
Entropy I misread the post from Jay on this topic over at Phycho Bike in the 12R section. I stand corrected Sir.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted December 24, 2005 04:47 PM
quote:
Entropy I misread the post from Jay on this topic over at Phycho Bike in the 12R section. I stand corrected Sir.
Damn! I was hoping you were on to something... Maybe cut the crank gear and space over the starter gear????. You have a bunch of expertise and i am always looking for new ideas!
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