VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted November 10, 2005 11:23 AM
I am Ordering a Set of OD Gears for the ZX12R
5th Gear will be about 1.100 and 6th will be 0.0967. The will allow the spacing between gears 3 to 4 = 0.190, 4 to 5 = 0.150 and 5 to 6 = 0.130 for an overall 0.066 taller top gear. I have 3 confirmed orders with a possible 2 orders. FOr 1 set, the price is $750. FOr 5 it is $550 and for 6 or more orders $450. I like the $450 price a lot. It will take 3 months for the gears to be made becuase of the Hardening process. If anyone is interested, please send me a PM. This is not a profit venture, just something I want and putting it together to lower the cost.
I remember a few people that wanted OD Gears to cruise the Highway and some for Land Speed Racing, well I want them for U NO What Land SPeed Racing. One way or the other I an ordering this before the end of November.
_________________
Made History at Daytona and "Still" one fast Old! Man
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
|
TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
|
posted November 10, 2005 01:31 PM
yes I want some. Put me donw
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted November 10, 2005 02:15 PM
 Edited By: trenace on 10 Nov 2005 15:57
BTW Mr Hill, Mr Robinson told me that if one wants 1.087 (actually the correct figure is 1.083) for 5th, which is close to but different than the 1.100 you stated, then one need not make a gear set (two gears) for fifth but only the output gear.
I misstated in an earlier post: that actually is what my set-up is, not sixth being the one with only one gear done -- I haven't done the install yet so was going on mistaken memory.
However if you did 1.087 for 5th, the gap -- in terms of percentage which is the relevant factor -- would be bigger between that fifth and a 0.967 fifth, than the gap between 4th and 5th.
That is part of why my sixth is 0.937.
However, it's a flip side argument -- if one goes for a pair of gears for 5th, allowing a ratio different than that 1.087 (the theoretical possibilities would be, besides that 26/24 or stock 26/23, possibly 25/23 which would also be 1.087, or possibly 25/22 which would be 1.136, I don't know what else, it doesn't seem to me that close to 1.100 is possible) then one might find the 0.967 sixth more suitable, which if I understand correctly requires no gears but only inversion of the stock gears (or perhaps I misunderstood Mr Robinson and he meant inversion of the gear tooth numbers but purchasing two new gears, not sure.)
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted November 10, 2005 03:23 PM
Trenace Agreed that I also do not understand if he was talking about Switching the gears or switching the "Numbers"!! It would be nice if it was gears and that would mean just 1 gear needed, but somehow that would be too easy  I also have done the Math and it looks like 1.087 is about as close to 1.100 as I can easily get in that space.
From 3rd to 4th = 0.190 fron 4th to 5th (Stock) = 0.120 with gear of 1.087 = 0.163 a serious amount of space to cover and then a 0.120 gap to 6th (Stock it was 0.097 between 5th & 6th)
with your plans it will be a tall jump of 0.150 to 6th and at that speed it is really going to be a "TALL ORDER" to fill  I am thinking that the.163 between 4 & 5th at a lot lower speed is bad enough but with your gearing at the end of 5th, you are going to ask the engine to do it again and that is asking a lot!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted November 10, 2005 03:34 PM
Edited By: trenace on 10 Nov 2005 17:19
I think it is OK though it's absolutely as wide as is OK, any more would be too much.
1.083 to 0.937 (or to be exact, 26/24 to 30/32) has sixth at 86.5% of fifth.
So for example if shifting at 11,650 then rpms would drop to just over 10,000 (specifically to 10,081)
Now since my motor isn't built and tuned yet I don't know for a fact what the power curve will be but a lot of built motors are within just a few hp of peak at 10,000.
And so that would be absolutely fine, unless my power curve is not like that and at 10,000 power is substantially less than peak. Which I don't expect but don't know, obviously would depend on what cam timing seems optimal and so forth.
If shifting at 12,250 with the ECU mod, rpm after shift would be 10,600 which definitely should be in the heart of peak power so that would work out ideal.
I expect that the case is going to be that I will still have nearly peak power at 12,250 and so will be shifting at about there. I'm happy with winding up at 10,600 after the shift.
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted November 10, 2005 05:33 PM
My question to you is at what "Rear" Gearing (Countershaft Sprocket and Rear Wheel Sprocket) were you figuring with??
The Taller the gear, the wider the spaces. Your figures sound about right for std Gearing but for real tall gearing like 19 / 43 it would be a huge gap!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
|
posted November 10, 2005 06:15 PM
Another $500 dont need it to go 220 mph. Maxton doesn't justify the need for drag gearing 1-4 and OD 5-6 because of lack of traction. Leave it alone, gear it to the moon, and save your $500.
I thought you were about saving money not spending it on this project. I can think of a lot better ways to spend $500+ to go faster at Maxton than OD gearing!
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted November 10, 2005 06:51 PM
Edited By: trenace on 10 Nov 2005 19:32
quote:
My question to you is at what "Rear" Gearing (Countershaft Sprocket and Rear Wheel Sprocket) were you figuring with??
The Taller the gear, the wider the spaces. Your figures sound about right for std Gearing but for real tall gearing like 19 / 43 it would be a huge gap!
Actually my sprocketing will be SHORTER than stock, 18/50 or depending on how that tests, 18/49.
With that, at 12,250 the rear wheel speed would be 216. Subtract 10 or 11 mph for tire slip (hopefully no more slip than that) and that's 205 or 206. With more tire slip, or if it seems there is more speed potential past 205 or 206, I'd need a smaller rear.
Running nitrous of course that would be far too short, but I'm going to be NA.
My belief on the value of the gearing is that in only one mile, acceleration is a huge factor. If for example one is going only 180 at the 0.9 mile point, one is f***ed... by that point one is covering a mile every 20 seconds, each tenth of a mile in 2 seconds, and there is no damn way (short of monstrous, beyond-NA power) that another 25 mph-plus is going to be gained in only those less-than-2 seconds from that high a speed, so much power already being sapped from aero drag.
So in other words 180, for example, is best reached before that point, as much before as possible.
From the ET standpoint, nope that's irrelevant.
But from the "terminal" (though it isn't terminal) speed at the 1/4 mile point, 1/2 mile point, etc, is is best if the acceleration is really good and if it's not, the speed at the one mile point won't be what it could.
I agree that for the standing mile I do not need for 1st to be as short as what it winds up being in my set (staying at stock value internally and running 18/50.) It's easier on my clutch but not needed.
However, having five gears to get me to 180 (instead of only four gears), and then with the 5-6 shift dropping me right to the heart of the peak power, sounds about optimal for NA, and better than stock gearing sprocketed to the moon, as acceleration will be better in the lower gears (though no better in 1st and perhaps 2nd due to being wheelie/traction limited anyway.) Anyhow those were my thoughts and why I went that route.
(I also liked the consequence for the street, that sixth despite the 18/50 will be a little taller than stock, but the 18/50 will be a nice benefit for the stock 1st through 4th.)
|
herk
Expert Class
Posts: 177
|
posted November 10, 2005 08:33 PM
that seems like a waste of money to me too 
____________
Revenge is the oldest motivation known to man
|
ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
|
posted November 10, 2005 10:28 PM
What about someone wanting to get back to the stock speed/rpm range with a 17 tooth sprocket. I like the low gearing for accelleration, but it sucks on the highway for gas mileage...
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted November 11, 2005 06:02 AM
Tony, that is part of the plan! Since I did not spend money on NA Power, I need more mechanical advantage on the lower gears before spray and then when using the extra power I can pull the taller gears.
For street, like you say, have the low end power up to 4th and fuel mileage in 5th & 6th! (Not to mention wearing out your engine turning all of those revs
Bergie, I am willing to bet that you spent a lot more than $500 at Lee's!!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
|
posted November 11, 2005 06:39 AM
quote:
What about someone wanting to get back to the stock speed/rpm range with a 17 tooth sprocket. I like the low gearing for accelleration, but it sucks on the highway for gas mileage...
$500 for parts, plus $$$ for installation.. how far will that go for buying gasoline? I doubt you will ever save anything gas mileage wise by using the OD gears when comparing to the cost to install them!
|
rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
|
posted November 11, 2005 06:42 AM
Edited By: rac4it on 11 Nov 2005 06:45
quote:
Bergie, I am willing to bet that you spent a lot more than $500 at Lee's!!
Not the point. The point is that $500 isn't going to make you go any faster, therefore it's a waste of money.
'mechanical advantage of lower gears' isn't going to do any good at Maxton, you're better off with the taller sprockets to aid traction 1st thru 4th anyway. There simply isn't a good surface there to justify drag gearing 1-4.
Rrunning your 19-toother with a small rear sprocket will be better than stock or drag gearing with OD gears.. for Maxton anyway..
Have you SEEN this? http://dontbescaredracing.com/video/ecta_oct02_berg.wmv
That's 18/44 gearing @ 195 rwhp.
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted November 11, 2005 08:14 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 11 Nov 2005 12:26
It is not about "Drag" Gearing but better acceleration in the NA Gears . Right now, even Randall has to slip the clutch a little to keep the bike from Bogging in 1st Gear. "ME" I just have to deal with the bike Bogging and hope it clears up quickly. with just this small amount of change it will allow me to go 1 to 1.5 teeth Shorter off the line.
Thanks, Looking at this has caused me to call Pierre for his overall gearing on the OD Gears because I would like to be about 2 teeth Shorter.which Trenace gears would do exactly!
I just spoke to Pierre. First he is doing fine and said that he made a 3 gear set which used the same 2 gear numbers for top gear 31 & 30. He also stated that he tired taller 5th but could not gear for the gap it created.
I now have 5 orders and am ordering 6 sets. (At $450 a set is $50 cheaper than (5 @ $550 per set) We will see what we will see won't we
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
|
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC