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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: to run or not to run!!!! NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
22348bCVC


Zone Head
Posts: 798
posted March 05, 2002 11:16 AM        
quote:
I still haven't got a serious answer yet. What would YOU officer do to a rider caught at say 110+mph over the limit?


WOW!...they better let me use my 12R catch a speeder zooming at 175+mph!....hangon, dawg!...we're goin' ballistic!"

Sorry, EBD...I forgot to answer earlier. You're asking what would I do? Again, I think it depends on the circumstances, the situation, the impact to other vehicles on the road, the danger to others, etc. , but if it was an EMPTY stretch, there is a possibility that the driver would get a warning for speeding over 100 MPH if he/she stopped when the red/blues light up. Ok, I know that some of you might be thinking "Yeah right, CVC is just sucking up", well most of you just don't know me....some of you do.

Its important to know that all infractions and most non-violent misdemeanors are subject to the officer's discretion on whether or not to enforce the letter of the law or the spirit of the law.

All that being said, I will tell you that I have WARNED many, many speeders...NOT ONE for 45 in a 25 school zone with children present, but MANY for speeding 85 in a 65 on an EMPTY freeway...including one young woman I paced at 110MPH who "was testing to see just how fast my boyfriend made my car go with the new turbo he put in".

So why do I even stop these people if I'm just going to warn them anyway? Because the law permits me to do so and its one of our useful 'tools' we all use to lawfully stop and contact people with. Criminals speed, too, and many a criminal have been put back in jail because of what was subsequently discovered as the stop unfolded.

As the disclaimer says, "Your individual results may vary."

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TedG


Moderator
Posts: 8222
posted March 05, 2002 11:35 AM        
Here is my motto, any cop that breaks the rules or acts like an ass or even is rude, his supervisor gets a call from me. I treat them with the same respect they give me. I don't have many run ins with the law except for the occasional traffic stop. I also always go the pace of traffic on the freeway. My major speeding is on lonely and twisty roads. Even then if there are cross roads I slow at to not be a menace.
I thought the Repuplican thing would get someone(I am a Republican) it just pisses me off that when the crisis was over they didn't lift it.
I want every cop here to know that I understand and respect the job you do with the exception of the HPs. The shit you guys see would make anyone sour. But I would think it a refreshing change to not deal with low lifes and criminals. Listen I have many cop friends and quite a few HP friends and they really get an earful right to their face. And when they get serious I really lay it on thick. He he.
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ezx11


Novice Class
Posts: 35
posted March 05, 2002 12:11 PM        
even after reading the pro- and con-police posts, i still say if it wasnt for the points associated with speeding, a lot of this run/not run stuff would be a dead issue

if you speed, pay for speeding. but why do we have to be bled to death for three years after the fact? sounds like insurance companies have our politicians in their pockets and are using the cops as their fishermen

wreckless is debatable/subjective

we all here have sportsbikes and no one wants to get hassled for such a minor issue of speeding, unless its a potential danger to others

we all enjoy the bikes, but its like cigarettes, if its all that bad, just make them illegal otherwise its like a dog chasing his tail, we just keep going around and around

another example is drinking and driving (i havent had a touch of alcohol in 23 years) but if its all that bad, then make alcohol illegal, i have never understood in rural areas having a bar in the middle of nowhere and then having a trooper sit and wait to bust someone

and i read someone say that LEO's are brainwashed, but when you think about it, if the act is legal today and illegal tomorrow, then that must put the LEO's in some type of schizophrenia (sp?)

hey, on the real side, we need cops, we need protection from criminals (because they wont let me shoot the bastards) we need traffic enforcement and i appreciate everything good that the cops do, but its that undercurrent of fattening the insurance companies that just pisses me off to no end

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blkrnbw


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Posts: 61
posted March 05, 2002 12:22 PM        
Hrm

Didn't someone post on a different thead (that was about insurance rates) that over 60% of the 12R's in their area were destroyed within first year? This is where our insurance rates go. By speeding yep you do increase their risk. Whether you have ever had a wreck or not they look at you as a possible claim. Blame the over 60%.

Brian

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ROCKET J


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Posts: 602
posted March 05, 2002 12:42 PM        Edited By: ROCKET J on 5 Mar 2002 12:43
Maybe I'll still get carded....

quote:
Rocket, how old are you? I don't say this to be mean it's just that most of your thoughts sound of that of a rebelious high school kid, not that of a man who has been around awile and lived a bit. Pacing cop cars and "I paid for it" stuff. Kind of childish I'd say.


Otis, thanks for the compliment. Sorry to say (more and more everyday) I am 41. Quite well traveled thank you. Maybe that is why I don't suffer fools and other people fucking with my life and rights. Some people take my views (I like to refer to them as principles) and sarcasm as a personal offense. Please do not. I try to evaluate everyone's opinion in a fair manner. Unless of course they are idiots.

Everybody loves me. Just, not at first.

Don't confuse growing up and growing old.
(If somebody wants to use that for their tag line it's ok

PS Rebellious and awhile are spelled wrong, Otis .





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Otis


Needs a job
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posted March 05, 2002 12:56 PM        

Otis, thanks for the compliment. Sorry to say (more and more everyday) I am 41. Quite well traveled thank you. Maybe that is why I don't suffer fools and other people fucking with my life and rights. Some people take my views (I like to refer to them as principles) and sarcasm as a personal offense. Please do not. I try to evaluate everyone's opinion in a fair manner. Unless of course they are idiots.



Not taking it personally Rocket, not a bit. This has been a good thread with good discussion and that is very healthy. I have just been really frustrated with all the liberal ho ha bull going around and everyone screaming civil liberty and crap, not that that's what you were screaming but the undertone of your thoughts have the same "paraniod" tone to them. While I do not agree with a lot of what you said I totally agree with the fact that you CAN say them. And I'm sure we can agree about that otherwise (and if you WERE a high school kid) you would have posted a slanderous hate filled cussing filled post in response to my asking your age. Good, we agree on that. Be a bit more open with regards to cops though, I know a ton of them around here and they are really good people and are in it for the right reasons. Do I get pissed off when I get a ticket? Damn straight, but not at the cop (usually LOL), I'm mostly pissed at myself for getting caught and knowing my wife is gonna give me hell for getting another one!!!!
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22348bCVC


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posted March 05, 2002 01:06 PM        Edited By: 22348bCVC on 6 Mar 2002 00:50
Rocket..I had this long desertation typed out here(surprise!) regarding your post about cops and 'brainwashing' 'self-induced' and the whatever else you wrote, but my computer somehow took a dump and I lost it and I'm too tired to rewrite it. You're entitled to your opinion. A few here don't agree with you. I definitely don't agree with most of what you have to say. Most of what you've described or opinionated don't hold water to the reasonable man. I don't care how old you are or where you've traveled, but I just can't help but believe that there is more to it than what you post.

It appears to me that you have a very negative slant towards cops, government, and any form of authority except your own. That's ok, you're not hurting anyone, they're just your opinions and beliefs. I just hope that no one gets hurt in any manner when you actually put them into action. To run from the cops or to not run from the cops...that was the question.

Anyway, thanks for the informative discussion. I'm done with it (for now). Good to know where some of us are coming from...and where some of us are going

Here's some reasonable advice: Never, ever assume that you know what's behind the officer's actions or statements. 'We' in law enforcement might appear that we have assumed, but most of the time we base our actions and statements on past similar experiences on the job. Always get your facts and information straight before you express what you believe is true.

NOW, LET'S RIDE!!!
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TedG


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Posts: 8222
posted March 05, 2002 06:42 PM        
This is a great thread, allowed us to vent, complain, compliment, and generally express ourselves. I like hearing the fuzz's side of things. No one should take offence, there were alot of points from both sides that make sense. I can see Rockets point of view and agree with alot of it and I can also see 223s side and also agree. Hmmm, I think I will continue to speed and even run if I feel there is no way I will endanger anyone and not get caught.
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willy


Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
posted March 05, 2002 09:06 PM        
Hey 22348bCVC

Hey 22348bCVC (tricky alias!) I'm not a regular poster here(I'm a zx-12r.org guy) but I have been following this thread for awhile, and I want to go on the record as stating I think you are getting way too little respect on this subject.

My opinion is that anyone who run's from a cop is an idiot, plain and simple.

Anyone who is speeding in a school zone deserves the ticket. Weaving in traffic doing 20 mph more than everyone else, same thing. We've all seen these idiots, do you want to be categorized with them? I don't.

I have a road out in the middle of nowhere where I go fast. No cars around, not even too many buzzards. But I guarantee you, IF the blue lights flash behind me, I'm pulling over ASAP, being honest with the cop, and taking it like a man.

Twice I've been stopped, and I've been honest (that is different than "sucking up", no cop appreciates condescension) and twice I've drove away with a handshake and a "slow down" warning.

Treat cops like assholes, you are going to be treated the same.

Rocket, Seriously, you have a major chip on your shoulder. You should lose it. Flame me if you want, it'll just reinforce my point.

Ride Safe.


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ROCKET J


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posted March 05, 2002 09:19 PM        
I kind of like that Edna Krabappel...

Willy, the grounds need tending to.





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willy


Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
posted March 05, 2002 09:43 PM        Edited By: willy on 5 Mar 2002 22:04
Crack or Meth, Rocket? BTW, your signature "If I get any smarter, my head will explode!". Get smarter. Please.
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ROCKET J


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posted March 05, 2002 11:39 PM        Edited By: ROCKET J on 5 Mar 2002 23:41
Major Chip? Liberal?...Anti Government?...PLEASE!!!

Maybe some of you kids need remedial reading. For I have never stated any of the above.

With apologies to Ginger, Eric, Ric and Stevie; blind faith only works with religion (ok, submarines, helicopters and spacecraft too). When I tell you the truth, you say that there must be more to it. Prima facie denial of the facts (of which you can or cannot prove) sends YOUR credibility out the window, not mine. You show extreme bias in your replies. You SHOULD be somewhat bias, as ALL points of view (from an experienced mindset) have to be, by nature. But to offhandedly toss aside something because you don't like or agree with it, is rather sophomoric in the least, and to a greater degree, it most certainly helps prove my point. A police officer with a closed mind, go figure. That is not very nice of me to say, but I'm sorry, that is the way you are coming across.

As for this cop on a bad day crap, do want to talk about something that doesn't hold water? You are given an extraordinary charge, and as such, you are held to an extraordinary standard. This politically correct garbage about just being human is as stupid as the PC trend of giving trophies for tenth place. Let me tell you something. If a cop just left five rapes and a baby murder, then he pulls some idiot over for speeding and he is wearing a T-shirt that says "I like to rape babies", the police officer should treat that moron no differently than if said cop had just climbed out of bed with Jamie Lee Curtis. No different. None. It is his job to be the same, day in and day out. Sorry if you don't like to hear that, but it is true. Same goes for mouthing off, you should (if you are any kind of law enforcement agent) be above reaction to petty annoyances. Sticks and stones, remember? If it is a good enough policy for the FBI and the Royal Guard, then it is good enough for you. None of that taunting and challenging crap. Hey, what if the person you pulled over is having a bad day, does that make it ok?

For God sakes, you are given the power to deny someone their freedom and the power to take a life. That requires a clear head. At all times. That power comes with a healthy dose of responsibility, fairness and compassion.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

If you can't take the pressure and the responsibility, get a job at McDonalds.

For goodness sakes, at least be honest. Cops and their families do not get tickets. If it is a perk of the job, then say so. Do not try to give me some infinitesimal percentage off the times that they do get tickets. The Sun comes up in the east every day. One day it isn't going to do that anymore. It is still correct to say that the Sun is going to come up tomorrow, because the ratio of times it does to the times it doesn't is pretty damn extreme. Also, don't act like speed traps do not exist and that radar is run only for safety, not mostly for money. Don't deny quotas either. Unless you patrol Mr. Rogers neighborhood, you can't realistically deny the fact that it's just how the real world is. In not saying so, you only diminish your credibility with the people on this site that can think for themselves; as opposed to the poor souls who just accept the status quo (it's a law, it must be right).

You don't have a monopoly on reality. Bin Laden is not my cavemate. I live in the real world. I do not walk in your shoes, but by the same token you couldn't possibly walk in mine. I have spent a fair part of my life in government service, in three different genres. Rest assured, that I have been privy to things that you could never know. On the same token, I do not claim to even fathom your day to day grind. I could not do the job you do and perform it properly while being emotionally removed from the situation. That is just one of many reasons I wouldn't be the right person for your vocation. I can admit that. I fear that many people who actually do that for a living, should make, but cannot make the same statement.

I do not have a chip, I do not have hatred or a subversive agenda to undermine anything. I just know what this country was founded on and why. It really (what did Pauly say? Or was it Mason Adams?) tweaks my melon when people just sit around, fat, dumb, and happy, and take their liberties and freedom for granted. See how watered down illegal search and seizure laws have become. There is a big difference between national security and a speeding ticket.

It is funny that the ACLU was mentioned. Even though most of the stuff they do is to me a big waste of time and money (hell, common sense too), the courts and the police should have no problem with them. Why? Because they live by the letter of the law, down to the smallest pixel. Their fights are always on the rule of law, and in fact, it is usually constitutional law.

Should you run? In YOUR mind are you doing anything truly wrong? That is your choice. If you do, remember that most people get caught, so be ready for the consequences.

CVC, nobody is beating up on you. If you are a good cop, and it sounds like you are, then you have the respect and admiration of EVERYBODY on this site, I can pretty much guarantee that. Two points of contention, quit being so thin skinned and closed minded. It will make you a better person and a better police officer.

Don't forget, that everyone wants the same thing: Get through another day, be part of a happy and healthy family, and own a high definition television set.




Rocket

PS- Redelk, how the hell do you write this much?
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ROCKET J


Zone Head
Goes to water over a dummy!!!
Posts: 602
posted March 05, 2002 11:56 PM        
Willy Make a Funny!

quote:
Crack or Meth, Rocket? BTW, your signature "If I get any smarter, my head will explode!". Get smarter. Please.


tee-hee





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ROCKET J


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Goes to water over a dummy!!!
Posts: 602
posted March 06, 2002 12:01 AM        
Hey, all you civil disobedient types...

Tell me this isn't a sad commentary:

http://www.pursuitwatch.com/







Rocket
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22348bCVC


Zone Head
Posts: 798
posted March 06, 2002 12:06 AM        
to each his own

willy...no sweat, dude...'we' hear it all the time and 'we' wouldn't last or want to be in this line of work if 'we' didn't know how to handle it...'we' know why people get angry or continue to be angry...'we' try to be prepared for it everyday, though...and some cops can't handle it...its part of the human element...right or wrong, people are entitled to their opinions...post on public forums and you open yourself up to come what may...people naturally choose the side they're comfortable with...the 'high-horse self-righteous' opinions eventually get their just rewards...I can only hope that I have been fair and balanced, and that I have shed some light as to how it is in this line of work...don't get me wrong, I have my 'bare-knuckle-in-your-face' opinions, too, but what good would that have done to post it here?...I was trying to 'educate' some people who thought they knew but didn't know...hey, I'm not big-ju (sup', bro! ), but I definitely feel his heat and I'm definitely on his side
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22348bCVC


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posted March 06, 2002 12:41 AM        Edited By: 22348bCVC on 6 Mar 2002 02:10
HO-LEE-SHIT BATMAN!!!..I just read Rocket's long post #223...Rocket, where did I state anywhere that what I say goes?...I stated my point of view...you stated your opinions, I stated mine, others stated their's...I even stated that you're entitled as we all are...and here you go 'beating me up' with post #223 and yet try to make it look like you're not 'beating me up'...nobody else is 'beating me up'...just you...respect me the man if you like...disrespect me to hell if you want...your 'negative' opinions are inconsequential to me right now, if ever...was I that far off base?...now I feel like I've just been 'attacked' by you and only you...why is that?...and what's with this secret squirrel I'm-privy-to-things-that-you-could-never-know-stuff?...as if that's going to impress anyone here?...if you really want to, then spit it out!...we won't tell, promise!...and you want to talk about credibility?...I've been totally honest you guys based on my experience as an officer of the law (who happens to own fast machinery )...my experiences, my words, 110% all the time...ya' callin' me a liar?...if I was a liar, I could never be a cop...dude, seems to me that you've got some serious issues with what I've said or some other issues that we're not privy to...man, go take care of it....really......go take care of it....
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22348bCVC


Zone Head
Posts: 798
posted March 06, 2002 04:18 AM        
Rocket...here's what I think a nut-shell:

I've had a counter point for just about everything you've posted regarding the different topics on this thread. You obviously don't like my counter points. And I don't like some of your's.

I'm 47 years old. I've been involved in law enforcement for 16 of those adult years. I've been a 'civilian' for the remainder. I will retire from this line of work in 10 to 15 years. I've seen and continue to see both sides of the badge. I continue to wear 'both shoes', it keeps me balanced.

I like all thing that are hi-performance, like fast cars, bikes, boats, and planes. I've been licensed to drive since age 16. I sometimes speed. Sometimes alot. But only on empty roads or appropriate venues (the race track). I've even been stopped by other officers. I haven't had a speeding ticket for the past 10 years. I already told you that the wife of a cop friend recently got a ticket and I personally know of a cop who got a ticket. I hope I never get another ticket again. But you just never know, do you?

I've warned many, many speeders, and that includes citizens and other officers alike. I've issued a few tickets during my career. I've never shot anyone (and I pray to God that I never have to), but I will if I have to. I've never been really physically fought with because I've been successful with my verbal skills and command presence. I've had my experiences of going 'hands ons', however.

There are some things about big government that I don't like, either, but for the most part I really get to live my life responsibly and unencumbered in our good ol' U S of A without looking over my shoulder (well, except at work). I know about our nation's freedom. I served proudly for six glorious years in the military doing my duty, but I never fought in any war. If you did more, good for you.

I and other people in this line of work get to see the best and worse in people on a daily basis, sometimes within seconds of each other. We just see more of the worse than most people. We just don't read about it, we're actually in the thick of it. We go to the problems when most others would rather turn away. We try our best not to be part of the problem ourselves.

We are held to a higher standard. And sometimes we fall. We sometime fall farther than others. We're held accountable for our every action and statement. We cannot and should not lie, but some do. We're human, we're not machines. We like and hate some of the same things as you in spite of our profession and beliefs.

Some of us are super cool. Some of us are heartless bastards. Most of us are just regular folk doing a job exposed irregular and sometimes hideous things.

Some of us have a warped sense of humor...dark humor in the face of scarey danger or an unsettling scene. Wry humor when we're dead-ass tired. We're not being smart-asses...we're just trying to cope.

We're not brainwashed. If we were indeed brainwashed, we'd never bicker amongst ourselves and about the system, and everything would be happy happy joy joy. Its not. We question things as much as you do. Maybe more.

No doubt there are bad cops and corrupt departments. Not very many, though. If all you've ever had was bad experiences with cops and authority, then it must be either something you've done, you don't like, or you live in some fucked up area with some fucked up cops. What else could it be? Do other people in your community feel this way? Invite them over here...let's hear them, too! My guess is that you're in the very minority.

You've described me as being closed minded and thin skinned. I'm far from it and I'm not. And you? Why do you come across the way you do? Why don't YOU read this thread slowly and very carefully again. Read what everyone has contributed. Tell me why most of them disagree with some of your stuff about cops...and they're not even cops! Some of them even get speeding tickets! Interesting indeed. I'll tell you what I believe. I believe that these guys are just being reasonable and normal.

Some of your stuff still doesn't hold water in my opinion...and this is just my opinion. By the way, what kind of work do you do? Just curious. You know mine.

Dude, we could go on ad nauseum about this, but I think its run its course. Good luck to you. I'm going 'speeding' tomorrow...and I hope I don't get caught/ticketed/hurt/or hurt someone else...I do know that I will not run if I'm lit up, though







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12RPilot


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posted March 06, 2002 06:30 AM        
So...if a citizen at McDonald's spits in a cops burger (like that commercial for a new movie that's out) I wonder what a cop would do if he is flipping burgers for citizens. Looks like there would be a whole lotta revenge going on. Yuk!!! Don't even want to think about it.
Hey Rocket. Weren't you a squid once? Ever have to do duty as Shore Patrol? Just curious.


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ezx11


Novice Class
Posts: 35
posted March 06, 2002 06:33 AM        
Rocket???

jamie lee curtis???? you coulda done better than that
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22348bCVC


Zone Head
Posts: 798
posted March 06, 2002 10:15 AM        Edited By: 22348bCVC on 6 Mar 2002 22:28
quote:
So...if a citizen at McDonald's spits in a cops burger (like that commercial for a new movie that's out) I wonder what a cop would do if he is flipping burgers for citizens. Looks like there would be a whole lotta revenge going on. Yuk!!! Don't even want to think about it.
Hey Rocket. Weren't you a squid once? Ever have to do duty as Shore Patrol? Just curious.



...looks like I'm baggin' my lunch for awhile ...all kidding aside, that kind of disgusting behavior has been a problem on occassion...cops see an exaggerated movie about bad cop behavior and DO NOT go, "Hey, I think I'll try that..."

...and some punk sees that same movie and what a food server could do and says, "Hey, I think I'll try that..."

...and I'm sure all the hard working and responsible people in food services and restaurants feel the same way I do...its a freekin' exaggerated movie, just hope most people leave it at that, but you know there'll be at least that one idiot who thinks its funny to tamper with some person's food...
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entropy


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posted March 06, 2002 10:17 AM        Edited By: entropy on 6 Mar 2002 10:20
22348bCVC - thanks for the post

I am not a cop, but I can appreciate your situation, and support you right down the line.

The law is the fukken law, those who run know the penalties. Live with it or work to change the law. I ran as an immature 17yr old on a bike, but wouldn't do it now. Those who want to run, go for it, but no goddamn crying... If the runner or the cops in pursuit hit me or my family while you are fleeing, I will take it up with the runner, not the cops.
.02 cents worth

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22348bCVC


Zone Head
Posts: 798
posted March 06, 2002 10:30 AM        
quote:
I am not a cop, but I can appreciate your situation, and support you right down the line.

The law is the fukken law, those who run know the penalties. Live with it or work to change the law. I ran as an immature 17yr old on a bike, but wouldn't do it now. Those who want to run, go for it, but no goddamn crying... If the runner or the cops in pursuit hit me or my family while you are fleeing, I will take it up with the runner, not the cops.
.02 cents worth

Thanks, entropy...this 'us' vs 'them' mentality is an uphill battle all the way for both sides to eliminate...

DON'T hate...DO something!
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Bigju


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posted March 06, 2002 02:03 PM        
Perfect example of the Run or Not to Run thing. Last night a person on parole breaks in a car and steals tols. He gets caught in the act, gets in his Jeep and flees. Hits the expressway in rush hour traffic driving wild. Eventually he is caught. I asked him how would you feel if you killed a woman on her way home to cook dinner for her Husband and 2 kids. Dickhead replies, Oh I didn't look at it that way! I just wanted to get away. Then I called the Officers who Chased him Stupid to thier faces. To which they replied I was wrong. Both of them have a little over a year on the job and have less respect that a Crack Whore Trainee! So after I was told I was wrong, I thought about it out loud and they now know I could give a fuck about either one of them. I will never say the "System" is perfect, but here on earth nothing is. I do know that as a Officer and as a Man I can't put innocent people at risk because of my selfish wants. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"
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ROCKET J


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posted March 06, 2002 09:35 PM        Edited By: ROCKET J on 6 Mar 2002 21:58
What a miserable job that was...

quote:
Hey Rocket. Weren't you a squid once? Ever have to do duty as Shore Patrol? Just curious.





That is one of the reasons I could never be a bartender or designated driver. Mothering a bunch of drunks (as well as a bunch baton wielding petty officers) while you are sober, just doesn't cut it.

12RPilot, weren't you on Captain Kelly's ride when the harbormaster went "a keel shinin'"





Rocket



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If I get any smarter, my head will explode!

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ROCKET J


Zone Head
Goes to water over a dummy!!!
Posts: 602
posted March 06, 2002 09:57 PM        Edited By: ROCKET J on 6 Mar 2002 22:55
She's not all that bad...

quote:
jamie lee curtis???? you coulda done better than that


A guy that I used to work with at the IRS just had a thing for her. You know how all guys have that one movie or TV (television, NOT transvestite) girl that they had a crush on, probably around puberty, but they are someone that always stays way in the back of your mind? I never really thought much about her until I met him. True lies changed my opinion. Anyway, who would you want me to insert instead of her?





Rocket
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If I get any smarter, my head will explode!

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