Outlaw1
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posted September 10, 2005 08:12 PM
Ok lets try this 282 is going to take more RPM to go same speed as a 270 ratio. Do you agree gunner?
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trenace
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posted September 10, 2005 08:14 PM
 Edited By: trenace on 10 Sep 2005 21:18
Outlaw, actually it's an arbitrary thing the direction in which gearing is calculated. It could be done either way.
But the way that is standardized among engineers is that a higher gear ratio actually means the rear wheel turns SLOWER for same engine rpm; or contrariwise for same rear wheel speed, the engine spins faster.
Anyway, for a bigger tire one does need a bigger rear sprocket to compensate, if it's desired to keep the same relationship between engine rpm and road speed.
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Outlaw1
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posted September 10, 2005 08:17 PM
quote:
Outlaw, actually it's an arbitrary thing the direction in which gearing is calculated. It could be done either way.
But the way that is standardized among engineers is that a higher gear ratio actually means the rear wheel turns SLOWER for same engine rpm; or contrariwise for same rear wheel speed, the engine spins faster.
Thats what I said Trenace 
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gunner
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posted September 10, 2005 08:17 PM
Outlaw Sir, when I was in NHRA Prostock we would regularly search out 99" roll out tires for our car because we couldn't pull 104" rollout tires. Ron Krisher on the other hand had more power than anyone and that Bastid ran 104s all day long. The change from 99" to 104" required a lower gear to pull unless you had Ron's power. I'm damn sure not confussed Sir. Been there and done that professionally for several years. Now had you stated that you went from the 46 to the 48 I wouldn't have batted an eye.
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gunner
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posted September 10, 2005 08:19 PM
Outlaw if you was fast before you have just learned that you have been going the wrong way with your gears. You'll be a damn blaze now.
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Outlaw1
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posted September 10, 2005 08:23 PM
quote:
Outlaw Sir, when I was in NHRA Prostock we would regularly search out 99" roll out tires for our car because we couldn't pull 104" rollout tires. Ron Krisher on the other hand had more power than anyone and that Bastid ran 104s all day long. The change from 99" to 104" required a lower gear to pull unless you had Ron's power. I'm damn sure not confussed Sir. Been there and done that professionally for several years. Now had you stated that you went from the 46 to the 48 I wouldn't have batted an eye.
I never said I changed gearing I am still running the 17/48 I said in imo A 17/46 would be a better ratio with that tire.
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gunner
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posted September 10, 2005 08:28 PM
It would still be the wrong way to go. I don't want any hard feelings I need all the friend I can get as we all do. But if you switch to a rear tire that is taller you need to add teeth to the rear to account for the tire. Taking teeth away will make a bad situation worse. Unless you add say 25 more HP.
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Outlaw1
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posted September 10, 2005 08:30 PM
The whole reason I think a 17/46 would be better is stabilty. The 190/60 jacks the ass end up so high I believe putting a 46 on would lengthen wheelbase and give stabilty. The front end and highspeed shake from change is my concern, The bike is set-up extremely agresive with weight tranfered to front wheel. It handles quick and turn in is awesome. But on accel it gets a wee bit violent.
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Outlaw1
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posted September 10, 2005 08:35 PM
I see where I screwed up. I understand where ya coming from gunner. A smaller tire turns more RPM than a taller tire.
I just said it wrong. LOL
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Outlaw1
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posted September 10, 2005 08:38 PM
quote:
It would still be the wrong way to go. I don't want any hard feelings I need all the friend I can get as we all do. But if you switch to a rear tire that is taller you need to add teeth to the rear to account for the tire. Taking teeth away will make a bad situation worse. Unless you add say 25 more HP.
I aint lacking HP, I am lacking stabilty because of weight transfer and the bike gets a little violent. I cant get the rear end to squat enough on accel to counter the forward accel and the front end gets wicked.
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franz131
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posted September 11, 2005 06:19 AM
quote:
Gunner, is that what the 014 wear like...??? See how smooth the tire still is...???
I ran a new 208 (NOT the GPA) 3 days ago, same exact run, and the tire was completely
shot, with balls coming off and cords showing about 3/4 of an inch from the edge...
I just so amazed that I abused this tire as hard as I could and it held up for 110 miles!!!
I've experienced the same extreme wear from scrub Dunlops until I got tire warmers. Race tires are designed to work with warmers and 'cold tear' without them, I've also had it happen with Pirelli Supercorsas. Dunlops do look worse than some other tires when they wear but they are the most consistent over their lifespan.
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12r1
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posted September 11, 2005 05:11 PM
I'm going to try to find a steel 48 for the back, to make up for the tall tire. I have a Vortex aluminum 48, which I ran for a few hundred miles. It already shows wear, so I want a steel.
I also have a 4.5mm shim over the shock, so the taller tire/short wheelbase from the 48 will make it a quick handler. Possibly twitchy...??
I'm running 17 up frt.
jeff
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted September 12, 2005 03:05 AM
Outlaw, go to Schnitz Racing and pick up a set of Kennedy turnbuckle style dogbones. I put some one my 12 , and now on my 10. It allows you to raise or lower the rear of the bike with 2 12mm wrenches. Its much easier than dropping and raising the forks. I think I paid a little over 100 bucks for them....well worth it
12r1 if that aluminum sprocket is showing signs of wear that soon you need to make sure the rear tire is running smooth and that you are keeping the chain lubed properly. And make sure your chain isnt half wore out when you put it on. I get as many miles out of an AL sprocket as i do the steels. And I think that would be the general concensus around here. I got 16,000 miles out of a vortex sprocket on a ZX6RR. but put a new chan and front sprocket on when I replaced it. And that was on my trackbike so it just got abused all the time...no easy miles on it.....something to think about.
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gunner
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posted September 12, 2005 06:48 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And with my 17/48 sprocket combo the gearing was too high imo. A 17/46 is much better since the tall tire changes the ratio considerable.
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Ah Mr. Outlaw Sir, I hate to say this out loud but a 17/46 combo would be higher than a 17/48. A taller tire will in fact have a greater Roll out effectively changing the gear ratio to a higher gear. So with that being accounted for you would need more teeth on the rear to keep a constant ratio compared to the tire you just replaced. Removing teeth would only serve to make the ratio even higher. At least where I come from it works that way.
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Fear IS NOT a Factor!
Try this gunner 46 tooth divided by a 17 tooth = 270
48 tooth divided by a 17 tooth = 282
Take the rear sprocket size and divide by front sprocket size and you have your ratio.
As I said way up in the thread you're confussed about gear ratios. Your math lession although spot on shows that you didn't understand that a larger number is lower ratio. Trying to change the thread later on to say that you was talking about making the change for some other lame reason to save face is weak! There's no shame in not knowing. I run into people all the time who don't understand rich and lean either. I also have doubt if you understood that the taller tire raised more than just the AZZZ of your 12. I think you knew that it had effect but wasn't sure which way, or at least thought it was the other way?
Anyway no harm and No foul, but you did spend a lot of effort arguing a commonly known tuning technique. Come on over and I'll buy you a beer. We'll shoot guns, drink beer, and talk about Ho's!!!!!!!!! Like I said it's all good
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12r1
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posted September 12, 2005 11:27 AM
I thought it odd to be wearing as quickly...I always try,as we all do, to keep er lined up and lubed good.
Always possible I'm a bit off, but the damn thing was running very smoothly....
It's the first aluminum I've tried, and could'nt believe anyone would buy em ,after seeing the wear.I'll also look at the sprocket again,maybe I'm just seein' things.
I'll check it out more closely, maybe I can get some use out of the Vortex.
thanks,jeff
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trenace
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posted September 12, 2005 12:18 PM
Edited By: trenace on 12 Sep 2005 13:24
Hell no there's nothing embarrassing about having the directions reversed on that (the effect of the tire size.) I remember some other matter, forget what, but it had to do with tire size not on motorcycles, oh yeah it was a go-kart for the kid. I had it backwards, just seemed intuitively at first that bigger rear wheels would be more "tractor-like" and result in shorter gearing, same way that a bigger rear sprocket does.
Took me a little while and considerable back and forth (fortunately, all in discussion with someone else rather than having bought anything) before I realized that nope, it's the other way, bigger rear tire makes the engine rpm lower for a given speed, or alternately more speed for same rpm. It was thinking about bikes that got it right for me rather than puzzling it out actually, though once I remembered the right answer for those situations then it made sense when thought about.
It is damn easy to get the directions reversed on these effects.
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