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Posts: 3212
posted August 07, 2005 02:40 PM
Check out the ZX-10R Zone forum. Many former and current 12R owners share their opinions and comparisons of the two bikes.
IMHO, the 10R is the bike I've been looking for since 1997. I've tried to make my previous bikes ('97 7R & '00 12R) into what I was looking for, but KHI finally did it for me in '04.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
quote:Maybe that is the list fish is talking about , being first on the service department list for recall work! Or maybe first on the list of the "clutch petition". Kawi doesnt stand behind thier product very well as far as I can tell. It seems to take intervention from others(Doug or EL) to get what should have been fixed fixed!
CMON ozzy.......Most of the time it's just a lack of communication between us and the dealership and it takes someone like me to get things straightened out...we always stand behind our product as long as we should sometimes even beyond when we should stop.
Unfortunately the Dealer (stealership in my book) is the front line representation of the manufacturer. I feel it is the [Italics] Manufacturers Responsibility[/Italics] to educate the Dealer on proper warrantee procedures. A poorly educated dealer will cause far more harm to a manufacturers bottom line than a questionable claim in the long run. ( you are aware of this by your mentioning going beyond when we should stop)
Unfortunatey those without the resource of having an insider to intervine buy other brand next time.
An example of this is my Z1000. It has ran like a dog since new. I contacted you and as suggested installed new plugs at 120 miles on the odo. That helped for about 50 miles, then it started being a total dog under 2500-3000 rpms. My next step was to take it to the stealership with a ridability complaint. They test rode the bike, and by their seat of the pants experiance said it was just like all the others.( which both the service manager and aone of the mechanics are owners of). They never had in the 20 minute test ride the oppurtunity to get the bike temp up to a level that causes the problem, so how could they have known if my complaint is/was justified? Then the bottom line I am handed a bill for 30 some $ for their test ride! ( I made a post back then about this bs too).
Last fall at SBNW Dino and the rest of the group I was with had first hand exposure to the poor running of the bike. Strange thing is, after a 1/2 day of riding at near sea level, it started running awesome, like I originally expected. COOL! Next two days it ran great.
Upon returning home(2000 ft elevation)( trailered) the bike ran like crap again at low rpm's. (could this be an ecu or related problem, simliar to my 12R? we will most likely never know)
Bike is an 03 and now has less than 1300 miles on it and is for sale, cuz it aint no fun to ride like it is.
NO I did not complain to you, as I feel its not your job to keep the stealership honest. (Yes its the same stealership that tried to hose Beans with his exhaust system).You have pelnty of work without me crying to you( I shouldn't have to, the system SHOULD work.)
Bottom line is my memories of my experiance with the Kawi warrantee are a bit jaded from this experiance and my experiance with my ZX11 that was delivered with a broken lower right fairing, which the dealer tried to get Kawi to replace( I sat in his office when he called the women in Cali), she says, well how do I know the owner didnt break it while changing his oil?(she didnt know she was a: on a speaker phone, and b: that I was setting there listening to her bs.) The dealer told her he knew because he had known me for many years and did not believe that I did it. Bottom line, claim denied.
This is why I believe that Kawi does not have a great warrantee program, whether it is due to poor dealer education, or general policy, the customer gets upset and leaves the flock.
Sad but true, you can't please all the people all the time
posted August 07, 2005 05:27 PM
Edited By: trenace on 7 Aug 2005 18:29
quote:
quote:Also top shelf suspention parts and a short wheelbase.
Hey Trenace! Are you considering using a P series 7R swingarm as part of your plan to shorten the wheelbase or do you have something completely different in mind. Having had done such a swap myself (albeit, with a VERY LIMITED budget), I'm dying to just get some idea (don't expect ya to tell EVERYTHING) on which direction your thinking about going to acomplish the goal of a shorter wheelbase.
Actually Redelk, it was learning of YOUR project, that was the original inspiration for me to want to shorten the wheelbase.
I'm doing it with a JMC arm though in the hopes that that is supposedly supposed to be substantially lighter than either the stock 12 arm or the 7R arm. Should look about like this when done except shorter, no decal, and painted to match stock frame powdercoat:
I specified for it to be 32 mm (about an inch and a quarter) shorter than stock, but as it has 45 mm adjusters it will be an option to also run it at stock length.
BTW if anyone wants a JMC arm, be sure to order it well before you need it... I ordered it around the first of May and I don't believe they've completed it yet, though they say they are in the process of building it and a couple of weeks ago, said it should be only a few more weeks.
I did it the easy way and nothing admirable about it, just a matter of wanting a particular thing and asking for it... you went and pioneered the unknown!
posted August 07, 2005 05:46 PM
Actually Trenace Mark Day had a 7 arm on his 12 way back when Mobie Dick was a minnow.
I'm trying to get in touch with him presently, but my mutual friend has been a little slow on the hook-up. Elk has at least provided me with some info as to model years and a nice pic to boot.
Elk I've been watching what TedG has been saying about his 10R all along the way. Very detailed and a lot of info. I hate to say it, but the 10 looks like the way to go.. I love the 12 though
____________ There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
posted August 07, 2005 06:23 PM
Edited By: trenace on 7 Aug 2005 19:25
It was however Redelk's project and reports regarding it that inspired me on it, though. He did have to work through many details that I do not, having simply handed it over to JMC. That was what I meant. I wasn't aware of Mark Day's work until you had told me of it.
posted August 07, 2005 06:29 PM
No ill will intended in any direction.........I'm just grateful for Elks pics and info provided. It allows me to have another source to learn from. The interweb is a great thing indeed.
____________ There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
quote:I saw the 1300 which is the ZX11 up graded to the 1200 and now the 1300 but it is a Sport Tourer more for touring and not speed. so it may be that this engine with some tweaking "May be " part of the Equation
I would like to ride the new ZRR12 because the old ZX11 does have speed.
My theory is if they did come out with a ZRR1300 the ZX12R production days would be numbered. Because the ZRR1300 would make more HP. Just a theory
Not much difference rolling on throttle at 60mph in top gear between the ZX12R and ZX-11by the seat of the pants. With a new ZRR1300, I would bet on the ZRR1300 out pulling a stock ZX12R IMO.
____________ Lead, Follow, Or get the hell outta the way.
posted August 07, 2005 08:38 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 7 Aug 2005 23:12
Ozzy.... I dont remember reading anyting about your Z1000 probs, but if you have not solved them yet, or have any problems in the future, I know who to forward you to to solve them at KMC. Some things need to be directed to the correct department. It's a large corporation, and they cant keep tabs on every dealer. Much of this is out of XL's realm, but as I said, I do know who to put you in touch with.
Drop me an email if you still have probs/ concerns..
____________ What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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Please... speak to the hand.
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posted August 07, 2005 09:26 PM
I remember when Mark put the arm on his monster/beauty. Mark had seen and rode both my A model and Bart's B model. He was blessed to have the assistance of Roger Twito (I hope I spelled that right). I spoke with both of them several times during the swap. Roger had worked with Horsepower Mike and is one machining MF'er. If he can't find what he wants... he just makes it. He also put a Penske on. It didn't hurt that both are pretty suspension savvy.
The JMC arm seems to eliminate a lot of potential problems, seeing as how one can determine the location of where the dogbones mount and it's relationship to the swingarm pivot. I still have a bunch more "comparison pics" like the one used in my linked report.
It will be interesting to see what direction KHI goes with the '06 12R. I would think that with the the improvements in the ZZR line and the Euro EN-6R, the '06 12R should keep it's sportier nature. It is about time for a complete make over for the 12R. The Busa is basically unchanged beyond BNG (Bold New Graphics), yet is still used as a benchmark of "ultimate performance". A good example would be BMW using the Busa in comparison to their new powerhouse.
There is no doubt that the 12R can do just about anything a Busa can and in most cases, much better than the Busa. Since almost no one leaves their bike "stock", the 12R has always been and still is the bike that most dramatically changes with a minimal amount of modifcation. I'm sure KHI has grown weary of the 12R being "that other unknown hyperbike'. '06 could very well be the year that the 12R gets not only the improvements from it's brothers (the 10R and the 6RR/636), but some of the additions that has been "standard mods" of '00 to '04 12R owners.
In other words, KHI will be reminding everyone that the Busa's peak was 1999 and for 2006 all one can say is "That was then.. this is NOW! At least I hope this is the case. Will it be a pumped up 10R? No and it was never ment to be. I also think it won't be a "Naked ZZR" either.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
posted August 08, 2005 03:13 AM
Mark's 12 handled beautifully. I couldn't believe the difference between his and stock. And with his pumping out some 210hp at the wheel, she was a fast booger too.
posted August 09, 2005 07:44 AM
I can not believe I am going to say this about a Kawasaki, But that thing is UGLY!!!!! no way I am waisting my money on a bike that looks like that. Looks like the money I was saving for the "new" ZX... might just have to be spent on that MV Agusta I have always wanted!
Mad Mike
____________
200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
posted August 09, 2005 01:53 PM
I believe the silver bike on the bottom is what you will see in sept.The top blue one has been altered in the tailsection to look like a photoshop.I also think the ZX12R and ZZR1200 will be combined in this ZZR1300 bike.The silver one is actually quite a nice looking bike.
posted August 09, 2005 01:56 PM
Edited By: lietoome on 9 Aug 2005 14:57
If the new 12 looks like that...I will keep my '03 and find me a red 2000. The tail on that ZZR is very hard on the eyes.
not to mention, that zzr looks a lot like everything else out there. Nothing unique about it. Sad really...
posted August 09, 2005 04:00 PM
If you look under the seat, at the frame and gas tank cover, sure looks like a ZX12 to me!!!...Yep, a stroked ZX12 motor is being used...
posted August 09, 2005 04:22 PM
Edited By: trenace on 9 Aug 2005 17:23
Well, it may be only a photochop... in which case that would just mean that Young Machine used a ZX-12R pic as the source material for that part of the bike.
Other articles have claimed that it is an all-new motor but more based on the ZX-11 design.
Till definite photographs appear, it may be too early to say, but I don't know.
posted August 10, 2005 09:13 PM
The kawa factory sales rep at sturgis talked about this article. Definetely close he said, but computer generated. The new bike will be unveiled at the "dealer meeting" sometime in september. He said in the beginning of the conversation 1300 or 1400, towards the end of the conversation, he slipped up a bit more. I've got $100.00 on a 1300cc ZZR. He said the ZX12R isn't going anywhere for now, and did NOT mention any improvements for the ZX12 model itself.
BTW, I think the ZZR1200 is a flaming P.O.S. compared to the ZX12R.
____________
Revenge is the oldest motivation known to man
Needs a life
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Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted August 11, 2005 07:12 AM
Completely different bikes, with different purposes. Having put in 900 mile days on the ZZR1200, I can tell you that my ZX12R would be stopping twice as much...For fuel, if not for rider comfort.
Another neat lil fact - the ZZR had the best 50-100mph roll on of any 1200cc bike made. Now past 100, that's another story. But up to, you were king. S'prised a few 12R owners that way.
quote:The kawa factory sales rep at sturgis talked about this article. Definetely close he said, but computer generated. The new bike will be unveiled at the "dealer meeting" sometime in september. He said in the beginning of the conversation 1300 or 1400, towards the end of the conversation, he slipped up a bit more. I've got $100.00 on a 1300cc ZZR. He said the ZX12R isn't going anywhere for now, and did NOT mention any improvements for the ZX12 model itself.
anyone wanna bet $20.00 that the silver one is not a photoshop and will be the bike you see in sept. ?????
posted August 11, 2005 04:34 PM
Fortunately for KMC.... loyal Kawi owners continue to buy Kawi products despite their local shitty dealers....lol.
fish_antlers is happy with the Intarweb because he can finally dispose of all those thousands of little plastic army men he had set up in his study in 1999 that he pretended to rule over with a bull horn and surplus General uniform he stole from a tour of Her Majesty's castle. Now with the intarweB he can rule, with an IRON FIST, over millions upon trillions of little bits and bytes like never before! (and they respond..unlike those little plastic army guys!)
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posted August 07, 2005 02:40 PM
Edited By: 
duh....
