hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 24, 2005 05:02 AM
Bike Won't Start
Greetings All!
I recently changed my entire '03 wiring harness, throttle bodies and ECU with the '04 harness, throttle bodies and ECU. I've checked and re-checked every connector, but my bike still won't start. All the gauges operate, fuel pump cycles 3 secs and bike turns over strong. However, it just backfires (one loud backfire) when I try to start it. Each time I try to start it, it turns over, then one loud backfire, but it doesn't start. Only corrector I don't have connected is the one that goes to the kleen air system (didn't install it). Any thoughts/suggestions? I'm US Military in Japan, so it may take a day to answer any questions because while you guys/gals are working, I'm sleep and vise vera...anyway, all help is appreciated!
   
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 24, 2005 05:32 AM
Exhaust cam pickup.
Kawi usually move this with cpu changes.
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 24, 2005 05:49 AM
Ninja12, I'm sorry I'm not familar with that term, can you please explain? Thanks.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted June 24, 2005 03:54 PM
 Edited By: osti33 on 24 Jun 2005 16:55
Did you switch the plugs for the TPS(throttle position sensor) and the pressure sensor up under the frame? They will fit on the wrong sensor and it will fry your TPS.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 24, 2005 07:15 PM
The head has a pick-up plug on the right front side . 10mm bolt head hold it in.
The cam has a 1 prong rotor which bolt to opposite end from the cam chain sprocket.
When the prong pass the pickup it signals the cpu that the exhaust is in a predetermined position. Kawasaki changes this expected position with different CPU's.
You can fix it by pulling the rotor , grind the position holder so that you can reposition the
rotor where the cpu expects it to be.
This was common with the 2000 and 2001 engine swaps. ( same results with harness swap)
Before you do this make sure you didn't mix the tps and pressure sensor as osti33 suggest.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted June 24, 2005 08:04 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 24 Jun 2005 21:05
wow. the internet has lots of information on it! how cool! you guys STILL amaze me!
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 24, 2005 08:52 PM
It's impossible to switch the TPS and pressure sensor. On the 04/05 throttle bodies, the TPS is 2 small color coded plugs instead of the 1 pressure sensor lookalike plug. But I will go and check the exhaust cam as suggested. Thanks! I'll let you know.
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 24, 2005 09:09 PM
Ninja12,
Sorry, one more question: When grinding the position holder, how do I determine where the ECU expects the rotor to be? That may sound stupid but I've never heard of this before. Thanks again.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 26, 2005 06:21 AM
Probably best if you can see an 04 exhaust cam for referance.
If one is not available. you can use trial and error a couple degrees
at a time until it starts then lock-tite the rotor and reinstall the valve cover.
It don't have to be exact, just within an acceptable range.
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 26, 2005 06:23 AM
Another opton is to us the 04 exhaust cam but you will need to reshim.
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five 0
Expert Class
Posts: 215
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posted June 26, 2005 09:59 AM
Hank on guys, nobody has said anything about the ignition rotor!!! The 2004 has a different one. Look at it. More little tits on it. I am sure thats what is wrong. I bet you need a 2004 rotor to go in there.
5-0
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 26, 2005 04:37 PM
maybe, but why are you so sure?
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 26, 2005 11:55 PM
Five-O,
I did notice the ignition rotor was different and I have already ordered a new one. I have gone through both manuals very close and the (ignition rotor) is the last part that is different than my 2003. It was 7 dollars and my Kawai dealer here in Japan says it will bolt right on. It should be here in a couple of days and once I install it I will let you know. Also I'm very interested in the exhaust cam idea from ninja12. I'm not very familiar with the process so I'm doing a bit more research. Anyway, thanks to both of you for the info/help.
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junior s
Pro
?
Posts: 1644
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posted June 27, 2005 02:52 AM
The dealer is in Japan and it'll take a couple of days ? WTF ?
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Get up off your ass and ride !!
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 27, 2005 04:21 AM
Junior s,
Unlike the US, here in Japan space is such a premium that dealers here don't stock much of anything. Most all parts have to come straight from the factory (Northern Japan). It used to drive me crazy, but I have been here so long that I have gotten used to it. Believe me when I first got here I was always like; WTF?!
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five 0
Expert Class
Posts: 215
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posted June 29, 2005 06:28 PM
Any news yet?? I am sure curious??
5-0
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 30, 2005 05:35 AM
Hey Five 0,
Yes, I changed out the ignition rotor and my bike still wouldn't start. It stopped backfiring and it was turning over (with little puffs of smoke) from the exhaust. So (luckily) I had purchased the new exhaust cam rotor as well. I pulled the head cover and even without taking out the exhaust cam I was able to install the new rotor. Actually, it was pretty simple and the position was definitely different. My original one was at the six o'clock position, but when I installed the new one, it was at about the five o'clock position. I got everything back together, but since I had to pull the radiator, I didn't get a chance to refill it and try to start the bike. Tomorrow all I have left to do is fill the radiator and turn the key. I will post the results as soon as I'm done. Thanks for your continued interest and all the advise!
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted June 30, 2005 07:14 AM
crank it without the radiator.
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted June 30, 2005 07:28 PM
Today I filled my bike with coolant and it started right away. The idle was a bit high so I adjusted it and went for a ride. The throttle response was incredible. The sub-throttle bodies really do make a difference. There was no flat-spot and no hesitation coming out of the curves. Glad I made the change. Also since I had to change my stator, I'm glad I don't have to worry about the oil in the wires problem everyone has been dealing with. The new stator seems to be heavy duty and it also seems to power the bike componets a bit better. I do still have one problem; my FI comes on after about 5 minutes and remains on. I think it's my gear position/neutral switch because my neutral light does not come on as well. It's a new switch because I had to change it to match the new harness. I did drop it a couple of times before I put it on, so I was wondering how durable they are??? Anyway, no oil/coolant leaks, bike is running strong, so back to the drawning board for the FI/Netural light...any advise?? Ninja12/Five-0, you both were right on the money and I appreciate it!!!
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted June 30, 2005 10:03 PM
Check the error codes from the ECU, if the FI light comes on! You can do it easilly by grounding one free wire near the ECU and reading the flashes. Check from the service manual!
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five 0
Expert Class
Posts: 215
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posted July 01, 2005 04:42 AM
Very nice, glad you got it going. So the 2003 cam rotor was different than the 2004?? Thats good info and I did not know that. We are always doing this stuff in the race cars, so I need to know.
Bryan
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted July 01, 2005 06:29 AM
Glad it worked for you.
Five 0 it's not a problem if you use the CPU for the engine you have.
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted July 01, 2005 08:08 AM
Tuusinii,
Thanks for the advise. It was easy to figure out what the problem was because when I grounded the Neutral wire (light green diode at the junction box) the FI light went off and my Netural light came on. So I know it's the gear position sensor, I just need to figure out if I'm going to buy a new one or trouble shoot the one I have.
Five-0,
Yes the cam rotor (and ignition rotor) is different between 03 and 04. As you mentioned in your earlier post, lots of tits on the ignition rotor...and the position of the cam rotor is five o'clock instead of six. I was nervous about changing it at first, but once I took the head cover off, I realized it was such a simple process. I did it all in about an hour (taking off and draining the radiator, removing the throttle bodies, and taking off the head cover) and there was no need to remove the exhaust cam or re-shim.
Thanks again for all your inputs!
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hbeat12r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted July 02, 2005 07:37 AM
Alright...don't I feel stupid. After being real careful to follow my service manual and torque every removed screw back to exact lbs, I realized today that I had put the Gear position sensor in upside down! Geez, what an idiot! Ok, I changed it and FI light is off, Neutral light is on and bike is running great! It took a while to get everything correct, but with the way my bike is running now (with the sub-throttle bodies), it was all worth it! Thanks for all the help!
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