redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted May 03, 2005 05:25 PM
Interesting oil filter and oil articles
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
What do ya'll think?
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted May 03, 2005 10:27 PM
good read, but i'm rather concerned by the author's own disclaimer at the top that he's not an oil expert. coudl be all kinds of things he's missing. guess it depends just how well he has educated himself.
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
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posted May 04, 2005 07:18 AM
Good read Sherman, I can attest that fram oil filters are J-U-N-K!!!!!!!!!! Been running Napa filters on the truck, and OEM on LIL' Red. I'll probably run the Purolator filter in both now though, most places carry them I'd 'spect.
Oh yeah, and my personal experience with the Fram junk was oil pressure loss.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted May 04, 2005 08:02 AM
I had a Fram that came apart in my KZ1000 and left Harden Glue in the oil Pan!
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trenace
Needs a job
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posted May 04, 2005 08:39 PM
 Edited By: trenace on 5 May 2005 00:25
BTW, with regard to his recommendations, the correct Purolator Pure One fit for the 12R is the PL14610, which is what I've been using ever since first reading that site.
(The website specifies either that or the shorter PL14612 for the ZX-12R, and recommends you use the longest filter that fits. The longer one does fit.)
Only $5 and some change at the Discount Auto Parts.
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted May 04, 2005 10:17 PM
Thanks for the links. I printed them out and put them in my bag to read on the flight to Singapore tomorrow. I'll post my opinions in two weeks when I get back.
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zx23rr
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posted May 05, 2005 07:01 AM
I still do not understand why anybody would not run a factory oil filter on their bike? Because it is cheaper? The saying goes you get what you pay for in the motorcycle industry - I believe. I dont install cheapo tires because I dont need problems at speed. Same goes for the engine.
As for engine oil, I have been using 15w40 Rotella diesel oil. Great stuff!! And not expensive. I figure if its good enough for a 600 horse diesel engine - especially with the new EGR engines and all the extra soot. It will have the best additives and base stock available. Also, some manufactures where allowing 25000 mile or more oil change intervals on their diesel engines. The new EGR engines are introducing more soot than ever before, but the intervals are slowly increasing again.
BTW, I change my oil in the 12 every 600 to 1600 miles max. I change the oil filter every 3rd oil change. On the 12 you are only changing about 70-75% of the oil every time as it is. Then cut it open for any FOD.
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trenace
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posted May 05, 2005 08:42 AM
Edited By: trenace on 5 May 2005 09:43
Well, the links posted at the very front of the thread explain why one would run, for example, a Purolator Pure One instead of the factory filter.
The OEM filter is not more expensive for being better: it is more expensive for being cheaper-made and overpriced.
And as to why you change your filter only ever 3rd oil change, seeing as how a better-than-stock Purolator Pure One filter is only five bucks and change each, why not change the filter with each oil change? Unless really hard up for $5. It seems kind of chintzy not to.
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kz2zx
Pro
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posted May 05, 2005 09:42 AM
Gents, for the 10R and my R6 racebike, I chose the Bosch 3300 over the PL16410 - I change the oil frequently in both, and am more concerned about adequate flow at high RPM than relative length/filtration efficiency between these top-rated filters.
My $0.02.
I also use the Rotella-T Synth in 5w-40 for the R6 racebike, but use Motul 5100 in the 10R (moly... and I go longer between changes on the 10R streetbike).
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zx23rr
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posted May 05, 2005 09:43 AM
Maybe, but take a look inside and make sure that the holes inside the filter have either the same, more or larger, as you may get a pressure drop across the core otherwise. Frams are notoriously small or not enough or both. As for change the filter every time a filter is replaced, it may/will often introduce dirt or impurities into the engine.
Usually in factory performance applications, the "factory" filters are your best bet. I have yet to see a factory filter blow off!
This is also my opinion and from my experience gain over the decades.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted May 05, 2005 10:21 AM
i gotta say i've never understood why one would change oil more often than every 4000kms or so. i stick to about 4 or 5 especially when using synth. seems to me that everything i read (well, skimmed) in this article confirms that oil should realistically be good for alot longer than 5000kms.
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
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posted May 05, 2005 11:28 AM
Damn, def gonna go pick up a Purolator. Mine gets changed on average, about once every 1000 miles. I think the last one was about 100 miles between oil changes.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted May 05, 2005 11:34 AM
thats the big dilemma...the "oil" itself is fine for much longer than 5000 miles (syn anyway)...its all the bullshit thats contaminated in the oil due to engine use...acids/other byproducts...that you really dont want floating around in your engine...yet the filter cant do anything about...that requires the frequent change.
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otis
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posted May 05, 2005 11:37 AM
I change oil (Golden Spectro) and filter (K&N Oil Filter) every 2000-3000.
Good nuff for me.
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zx23rr
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posted May 05, 2005 11:54 AM
hi frEEk,
yes if you ride at 60 miles per hour on the I-5 non-stop other than gas, your oil will last 3-5000 miles. BUT that would be in a honda at steady state. Every manufacture has a "A" or "B" schedule for oil. Otherwords a "normal" and "Severe" duty service life. The later will reduce the interval to 2000 miles or less as recommended by the manufacture.
Few years ago it was enviromentally and politically correct to be able to say to the consumer that with our vehicle you can change your oil after x amount of miles. The longer the better and cheaper cost of operation. "Fleet" owners etc liked that.
In a car it is harder to use all those ponies on the street as compared at a bike. Plus an auto does not have a 6 speed tranny or wet clutch added to the mix.
Now in the case of the Zx-12r, with its 200 plus "CRANK" hp and tranny, it chews up the oil in rather short order if the bike is "used". Throw in short trips, extra fueling which will dilute the oil with fuel, and you can cut the life span of the oil quickly.
What us riders do not notice is the amount of heat that is produced as the cooling systems have improved in size over the years to combat the problem. They are doing a great job as far as I can see. Amazingly, the oil capacities have been reduced which is a function of engine size and weight savings program. Case in point, the Zx-11 has a 4.0 liter oil system(totally dry) and the Zx-12r has 3.6 liters totally dry. The cooling system on the Zx-11 is 2.5 liters(i think) and the Zx-12r is 3.6 liters.
These are my reasons for changing oil at a shorter interval than recommend in the owners manual. If the manual recommended that you change your oil every 2ooo miles, that means non gear heads would be at there dealers every 6 weeks for an oil change. Not user friendly.
The regular oils btw, will come out of grade the second you start the engine. Most oils will stay within an acceptable level until around 800 miles. After that, some where so far out of grade they start to resemble water (lol) Also, keep in mind that base stock petroleum of the non-synthetic type with a 20W50 (for example), as it is used up, it will return to its base stock of 20 weight. What makes it a 50 weight viscosity at 212 F is the viscosity index improvers. This is what breaks down with heat, load, and tranny abuse.
Synthetics on the other hand - 15W50 in theory, is a 50 weight oil base that acts like a 15 weight when at 0 F. So at 212 F, the oil is 50 weight with no viscosity index improvers because it doesnt need them. (all things being equal).
Now, the other addivites are friction modifiers, anti-foaming and anti-corrosion for starters. These break down as well as the oil. Synthetics on the other hand, stay in grade the longest and its the additive packages that finally wear out and require the oil to be chanced.
I'll stop here for now.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted May 05, 2005 04:02 PM
more interesting info there zx23rr, thx. wonder if the viscosity change over time for the "new" dino-derived "synthetics" (i hate that the courts let them get away with that, fuckin technicalities, yet not technical enough in this case) is the same as the real synths (ie. that they stay at 50 rather than 20)?
sounds liek the wet clutch is the source of possibly the majority of the oil longevity issues bikes have. makes sense as today's cars are going a helluva long time without oil changes. would be nice if manufacturers found a way to allow an additional, cheap, easily replacable filter that caught all the clutch crap. prolly increase your oil change intervals by a bunch.
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted May 05, 2005 04:08 PM
Edited By: trenace on 5 May 2005 17:13
H-D... 'bought they only thing they have going for them.
Then you also have Ducati (and other) dry clutches.
But yeah, I would think it would be possible to use your idea and without going to a separate oil supply architecture as with the Hardley-Ableson, just have the clutch return oil be scavenged in such a way as to go straight to the filter, rather than draining back to the pan to splash its dirty stuff along with the other oil.
I don't know the system works in the 12 in that regard, but I don't know of any dedicated return from the clutch that would keep it from contaminating other oil in the sump. The manual is a little hard for me to figure out in that section unfortunately.
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fattkaw
Expert Class
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posted May 05, 2005 04:19 PM
can someone tell me if this pure one number will fit the zx10r---pl14610
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zx23rr
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Mahogany Bomber Pilot
Posts: 242
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posted May 05, 2005 05:04 PM
from what i have gathered, the "new" dyno syntec's are basically a mix of fully synthetics and dinos. Mobil one was one of the best out there for staying in grade. The next best suprisingly enough was - Castrol GTX. - dino based stuff. It stayed in grade almost as long as the synthetic. The Golden Spectra was garbage. It came out of grade worse than the other base stock stuff.
As for the oils causing clutch slippage, I have used/use Mobil One 15w50 and no problems and no worries. I installed the 2000 Zx-6r springs (all 6 of them) and no slippage. And I am running 18 - 44 gearing.
The info i posted above has to be put in proper context. If you are working your engine and gear box plus higher speeds - change your oil often. If you are highway cruising interstate style, then you can extend your oil changes to what the manufacture recommends. Besides, we all ride the speed limit and never rev the engine above 4000 RPM. On that note, i thinks its time to change my oil again.
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kz2zx
Pro
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posted May 05, 2005 08:25 PM
yes, fatkaw, it does. I had one on there when Autozone was out of the Bosch's one time.
I also used that (purolator) filter on a ZX-6E and on a CBR1000F.
dave
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fattkaw
Expert Class
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posted May 05, 2005 09:18 PM
thank you dave! 
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kz2zx
Pro
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posted May 07, 2005 11:43 AM
Man, I get in this habit of typing my name as sig from the approximately 10,000 emails a day I send at work 
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