trenace
Needs a job
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posted April 27, 2005 10:44 PM
Adding links to cam chain?
Is it practical, something you can send out to have done or do yourself, to add links to the cam chain?
If I can do so (also need to look at feasiblity of fit of velocity stacks to frame, and maybe slight "tipping" of engine in frame) I'm considering whether I could add about 9.5 mm to the deck height -- which I figure would require 3 more links -- and run longer rods. But if I can't lengthen the cam chain that ends the whole deal. Call it the first of several hurdles.
Thanks!
  
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MadMike
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posted April 28, 2005 03:39 AM
i have never heard of anyone or anywhere you can have a cam chain lengthend... and are you sure you want longer rods?
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NINJA12
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posted April 28, 2005 06:54 AM
you could probably FIND a longer chain out of a different application. Something with a longer stroke, Maybe a busa 
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psycho1122
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posted April 28, 2005 07:18 AM
WTF!!!???
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NINJA12
Needs a job
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posted April 28, 2005 07:27 AM
 Edited By: NINJA12 on 28 Apr 2005 08:30
A chain is a chain if it's the right quality and size, use it.
IF the busa cam with a great tires, yeah right, would you not use them
because they came on a busa?
BTW the whole Busa things is just an example.
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Marcos Peguero
Zone Head
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posted April 28, 2005 05:47 PM
Here I have seen my mechanic change the lenght of a chain everyday for adaptations, and on kawas the manual says you have to split the case!!! and they brake the old and the new and presto, your ready to go with your new one.
A chain is a chain....
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted April 28, 2005 06:46 PM
Roller types yes, but not Hyvo's. You need to find a chain of the correct length, which actually should not be all that difficult.
D.
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trenace
Needs a job
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posted April 29, 2005 05:10 PM
Edited By: trenace on 29 Apr 2005 19:00
Thank you all for the help! And glad to learn, Doug, that it should not be that difficult a search. Much appreciated! But certainly then something I should do first, rather than last.
As to why, the expected benefit would be small, certainly not worth doing on its own. But doing a total build anyway, in that situation it's not a lot extra either. Basically the point is improving rod ratio from the stock 1.575 which is pretty low, to what would be 1.746 if adding that 9.5 mm, as one possible figure. If nothing else it's worth 150 rpm higher for same bearing load -- not a lot -- and you get a touch less side loading, and a trace more dwell time near TDC. Opinions will vary on the value of the longer rod if any, but it's something I'd personally like to do but only if not unreasonable in cost and added effort.
Unfortunately, the really substantial differences from changes in connecting rod length would be with bigger increases, like say 30 mm, which would be worth over 350 rpm redline increase with same bearing load which definitely is substantial; by the way, the Busa conrod is about 32 mm longer than the Twelve's, giving it a rod ratio of 1.90. (No wonder it's more amenable to stroking.) Too bad we don't have their deck height, but it isn't there and almost certainly would not be practical to try to increase the 12's height nearly that much.
But something more modest could be practical perhaps... and it's more hopeful now given the info you've provided.
Thanks!
(Lastly, as a final deck-height and rod length item for anyone interested, it looks like Kawasaki chose to increase the deck height for the 15F Jet Ski motor compared to the 12R's motor by about 48mm, giving -- despite the greater stroke -- a higher rod ratio of looks like about 1.79. So apparently at least some engineers at Kawasaki do think that more deck height and higher rod ratio is better at least in that application for the engine, provided that space constraints allow.)
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MadMike
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posted April 30, 2005 04:33 AM
Thanks for sharing, and the Rod's really are no problem if you have a grand laying around, I know for a fact that Crower Rods. will make a rod any length, and with them you can have top mounted nuts, for some clearance issues... Good luck again and let us know how it works out!
Mad Mike
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted April 30, 2005 01:01 PM
Thanks, Mike! Will do!
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robmuzzy
Expert Class
Posts: 295
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posted May 04, 2005 06:50 AM
Yes you can increase cam chain length on a ZX-12. You will need two master links and some extra chain. You will also need the master link crimping tool. That said you will not gain from the rod length unless you are going to run in the 12,000 to 14,000 rpm range.
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted May 04, 2005 03:12 PM
Thanks, Rob! Your posting an answer is greatly appreciated and helps a lot! Much easier than finding a chain alreaduy the desired length and more definitely doable.
Yes, that's exactly it... I'm wanting to increase my redline to about 13,000 so as to be able to use shorter gearing for Maxton (at least relative to stock redline) and have less power dropoff therefore more "power under the curve" from shifting, due to the shift now dropping down to a higher rpm, and bought your EMS for that purpose.
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robmuzzy
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posted May 05, 2005 06:36 AM
trenace, We where able to make 285 hp. at 13,000 rpm with stock length or 5mm over rods. What is you're goal? You will need at least 56mm throttle body's to get peak power at 13000 rpm.
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Marcos Peguero
Zone Head
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posted May 05, 2005 07:05 AM
Coño,
that is a lot of HP and RPMs
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted May 05, 2005 09:00 AM
Edited By: trenace on 5 May 2005 13:25
I would like to see 220 rwhp SAE -- and would be extremely happy to see any more -- on a fairly conservative dyno on pump gas and motor-only, at 1270 or 1286 cc. I'd like as much as possible over that 220 figure, but I'm not understanding how I can expect much more than that at stock stroke, which I'm probably going to retain out of personal preference.
This will also be with ported heads, cams, stacks, possibly a little larger valves (would you recommend this?) and all the various little tricks worth a hp or two each but which add up.
Thank you also for the recommendation on the throttle bodies! I was planning to bore them but had only known to bore them to 48 mm. Can the stock throttle bodies be taken all the way out to 56 mm (seems surprising if so) or would these by for example from DTA, or are they throttle bodies you could supply?
Thanks, Rob!
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