aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 19, 2005 07:14 PM
rod bearings
I went to buy a new set and he charged me for eight halves.I never heard of that and thought they came in pairs.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
  
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 19, 2005 07:30 PM
Nope. You buy each shell separately.
Doug
|
johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
|
posted April 20, 2005 05:08 AM
I hope you got the correct size
____________
Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 20, 2005 06:06 AM
Falicon told me that they machine everything to the middle size shell tolerance.According to the manual that would be the black ones.Thanx.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
|
posted April 20, 2005 09:56 AM
and you trust that correct?
____________
Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 20, 2005 11:06 AM
How often do you find a machinist off?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted April 20, 2005 12:12 PM
whoa! I am sure AA is gonna plastiguage the rods (aren't you???)
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 20, 2005 01:21 PM
I honestly hadn't thought of doing that until I did alot of search reading.I've never used the stuff befor but have several people who said they'ld help.Alot of times I go on blind faith,but I don't want to have to do this a second time either.If you knew me,my mo was always take the easiest route for 45 years,I just need people to tell me to slow down and take my time,do it right thanx
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
|
posted April 20, 2005 03:43 PM
AA
keep up the positive attitude, you WILL succeed.
I have broken every part, generally several times each, so maybe you can avoid some of the dumbshit stuff I've done.
Keep asking questions and don't take any one person's tips as gospel,not anybody!!!!! Well, maybe Coby 
Just keep asking questions, some stuff is pretty simple, good concensus, some stuff is out there.
Ain't it FUN!!!
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 20, 2005 06:30 PM
Hey,I got to admit,if I do it right its only because of this website.The amount of good info is enormously helpful.If I have a major problem,It's because I didn't ask or OTFM(open the fucking manual)and took a shortcut.I always had a phobia about splitting the cases and in truth its a little more involved then I thought it would be.However,when I take it one task at a time,its not bad.I find myself talking about what I picked up from you guys or just my experiences on doing the work myself at work and they're blown away at what this old crackhead is learning.I don't even mind admitting my naivity because of all the lurkers out there who might decide to try a project themselves if even I could do it.To this I say,Go for it and enjoy this path traveled.It is fun
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 20, 2005 06:42 PM
Right on JC. As for my .02, do not trust Plastigauge. I won't use it, no professional race engine builder does. I trust only my micrometers. It's simple, straightforward and, if you can read a mike and a dial gauge, infallible.
Doug
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 20, 2005 06:52 PM
Now thats what I want to hear,I work at an ivy school,and the machine shop guys are top notch and always willing to help.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
|
posted April 20, 2005 07:50 PM
quote:
I always had a phobia about splitting the cases and in truth its a little more involved then I thought it would be.
Me too... but I found that it was alot less involved than I thought it was.
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted April 21, 2005 02:49 AM
Maybe I misworded that,the cases were easy,the crank was more then I bargained for.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
|
posted April 21, 2005 10:16 AM
Just so I understand Doug- you measure the inside diameter of the rod with bearings, and the outside diameter of the journal, and subtract the 2? Simple as that? Sounds a lot easier than struggling to keep the rod steady on the crank during torquing and removal.
Dean
quote:
Right on JC. As for my .02, do not trust Plastigauge. I won't use it, no professional race engine builder does. I trust only my micrometers. It's simple, straightforward and, if you can read a mike and a dial gauge, infallible.
Doug
|
NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted April 21, 2005 12:00 PM
Good luck finding a good inside bore gauge that will fit the rods.
FYI , measure the rods with the bearings installed and bolts torgued for best results.
|
NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted April 21, 2005 12:02 PM
Any leads on the a gauge to measure rod bolt strech?
|
canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
|
posted April 21, 2005 01:30 PM
quote:
Any leads on the a gauge to measure rod bolt strech?
check the falicon website...
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 21, 2005 03:24 PM
 Edited By: dougmeyer on 21 Apr 2005 16:27
Dean-
Exactly. You assemble the rod with bearings, properly torqued (should use a rod vise when doing this, but clean FLAT SMOOTH jaws in a regular vise will do), measure the I.D. with a dial bore guage, subtract the two, and DIVIDE BY TWO. Remember you are measuring the difference in diameters and the clearance is the difference in radiuses. You can use a snap guage but this take a lot of care and is rarely as accurate (but better than p-gauge, in my opinion). Same procedure goes for the cases and mains.
As an aside, when I used to assemble the aluminum Can Am big blocks we would get assorted bearing shells from GM in graduated thicknesses of about .0001". The drill was to measure the bolts-properly-stretched (Carillo) rod, measure the crank, subtract, then select two shells (sometimes of different thicknesses) whose total thicknesses were correct to yield the EXACT correct clearance (to the nearest .0001"). The key to that of course, was the varied shell thicknesses. I have, on occasion, used two Kawasaki shells of different "colors" to get what I want. But again, you've got to have the shells to pick from.
As far as measuring rod stretch goes, get the small ball bearing or point&rubber cup attachments for your mic and just measure them. (Easy to do with the crank out)
Doug
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted April 21, 2005 04:27 PM
Doug, I heard the goal is tight end of tolerance on mains and loose end on rods do you agree with that?
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 21, 2005 06:10 PM
Well, no, not for me. I sleep well with .0018-.0025 on the rods and .0025 minimum on the mains. And that will work well on pretty much anything. The rationale for going wider on the crank is to allow for any lack of straightness in the crank (not such a big deal on "short" cranks like we use), and since the bearing is generally wider, they can use a little more oil flow. without the pressure suffering. The deal on the rod clearance is if it's too wide, oil pressure can suffer a little, if it's too close the oil flow suffers and the cooling effect of the oil flowing through the journal is diminished.
Doug
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted April 21, 2005 10:31 PM
Wow, that's just the opposite.
our manual calls for .0019-.0033 on the rods and .0012-.0025 on the mains.
What would you recommend for the max on the mains?
Other than shimming the oil relieve, any way to raise the oil pressure on the zx12?
THANKS!
|
ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
|
posted April 22, 2005 12:32 PM
?
|
krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
|
posted April 22, 2005 04:16 PM
??? I've never heard of anyone taking the difference between the two measurements(bearing id and bearing journal od) and then dividing that in half! If I wanted .002 fit on pistons in their bores, would that be .002 on each side? I don't think so. The difference between the two measurements is the clearance.
|
dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
|
posted April 22, 2005 05:11 PM
You are exactly correct. My brain was thinking too hard and I apparently didn't detect what it was doing. I hate it when that happens. Matter of fact as I re-read that I don't even know why I wrote it. It certainly hurts my credibility. MY BAD.
As far as the manual numbers go - remember these are mass production specs and service limits not optimum numbers for a race engine. And the others are just my opinion.
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC