VincentHill
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posted February 21, 2005 05:45 PM
Finished & Tested Fuel Bypass for NOS
It takes a lot to reinvent the Wheel, but here it is. I took a Fuel Filter and threaded one end to put in the Return valve to keep the Fuel Pressure in the FI System. Then gutted the Stock fuel return valve and opened up the Holes. Then Hooked it up to the Bypass Fuel Pressure valve and here is what I Have supplied by a Muzzy Pump. I looked a lot of places to mount this so it would not be sticking out and finally cut the threaded Bolt so if it falls over it will not break!
In the Next pic, you can see both Units hooked up!
From the other side you can see the Fuel return line going to the Pressure Unit I made and then to the Bypass Regulator.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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aliveagain
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posted February 22, 2005 06:25 AM
Nice job Vin!With all those extra wires and hoses,I'ld hate to have to pull that motor.Vin,I noticed you used teflon tape,ever have any problems with it?The reason I ask is that when I boght my valve(n2o bottle),they recommended using paste over tape.It had to do with the tape coming off while threading on and clogging the ports.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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VincentHill
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posted February 22, 2005 07:55 AM
quote:
Nice job Vin!With all those extra wires and hoses,I'ld hate to have to pull that motor.Vin,I noticed you used teflon tape,ever have any problems with it?The reason I ask is that when I boght my valve(n2o bottle),they recommended using paste over tape.It had to do with the tape coming off while threading on and clogging the ports.
No Tape anywhere! A lot of Liquid Teflon! The Pure stuff (LocTite) because the kind you get at Home depot will not work (No Need to ask me how I know!) On the Hoses, other than the one to the Solenoid, Just think of it as an "Extension" from the Fuel outlet before it heads to the Tank. Pull the same 2 fuel lines off "AND" remove the Return hose from the Bypass and you are in the same position again.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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NINJA12
Needs a job
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posted February 22, 2005 04:07 PM
What is the advantage to this over just splicing a T into the rubber fuel line and using a regulator?
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VincentHill
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posted February 22, 2005 05:51 PM
quote:
What is the advantage to this over just splicing a T into the rubber fuel line and using a regulator?
Several things are a problem with the ZX12 Fuel injection. Firstm if you put the "T" on the Fuel Pump Side, there is no Regulator made that will choke down 40 to 50 PSI to the 4 to 8 PSI needed. Then on the Out side from the FI, you have "lower" pressure but it is still high enough that it will wear out a lot of regulators handling the "Still" high pressure. Put in a Muzzy pump and you are really taxing the regulator.
To over come the High pressure, all I needed to do is put a "T" In line AFTER the Return Pressure Control device I made and everything will work just fine. The problem is, fluid Timing. When a fluid is sitting still and the "Door" is sprung open, it takes a "little" time to get into motion and up to full speed. Using a Bypass, the fuel is in full motion "ALL" of the time and when diverted to the Solenoid, the already moving fluid will get there Faster!.
The reason you need this extra speed is the NOS is under very high pressure and it has a Lot of speed when the Door opens and anything you can do to speed up the fuel is good (Read lowering the "LEAN SURGE") Plus, I can run higher pressure using a smaller Jet to speed up thesame amount of fuel even more. Using this system, I eliminated the (Extra) Fuel Pump, The Fuel Pressure Cut off switch, and a small amount of Amperage draw (Not to mention 2 more things that could go bad or Malfunction) 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted February 22, 2005 10:24 PM
Muzzy Stealth uses a regulator and they recomend the muzzy pump.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted February 23, 2005 05:09 AM
go get them vinny!!!
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted February 23, 2005 06:38 AM
I am using a regulator and the stock 00 pump works fine untill you get over 120 shot then you really have to turn the regulator down
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted February 23, 2005 08:16 AM
Like I said, It can be done with a "T" but look at the Specs on the Regulator Not good to operate something at or over the design limit. (I think a 0 to 15 PSI Regulator is fine up to 15 psi, but over that??) Plus I wanted something else, Speed of delivery
Johnny, I also used the stock pump without any problems, but I did not want to find out either
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 24, 2005 01:40 PM
I just emailed NOS's tech support guys....asking about the regulator (pn#15810NOS) that Muzzy's appears to use on their stealth system. NOS told me that the maximum inlet pressure to the regulator is 15psi. That is well below the output of the muzzy pump. The funny thing is that it is possible to step that pressure down in two stages (from 60 psi (approx) to about 14 and then down to 5 psi (dynamic pressure), but the cost is about the same as a Holley Blue pump. Of course it is far more simple to install a regulator (or even series of regulators), than the holley pump and plumbing into the tank, etc, but what would be ideal is to find a regulator that can step 55-60 psi down to 5 -7 psi in one step AND not be the size of a toaster and have it cost less than a new car.
I am not comfortable trying to jet fuel for 50 psi ....especially when there are jet charts available everywhere for low pressure . I spoke to the Tech operator from Nitrous Express, and he mentioned the fact that changes of .001" in the oriface size at high pressures can create all kinds of tuning headaches. His solution was to have 2 parallel fuel systems...one low pressure and the other high pressure. I cannot help but think that the Muzzy in-tank pump, which is good for 700 HP, is sufficient to run both systems......providing I can find a regulator part # that will step 55-60psi down to a workable pressure.
Any thoughts?????
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted February 24, 2005 02:46 PM
MAXX, Now you know what I Knew! That is why I made that unit to reduce the pressure to 16 PSI and then to get 4 to what ever pressure I want is easy!
The difference is, I called NOS, NX, Jeggs, Summit Racing, and about 5 other places and never found a unit that safely handles 50 to 60 PSI down to 1 to 15 PSI (At least for a long time)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 24, 2005 04:28 PM
I did find two Vince...after extensive Google searching.....
Mallory
Part # 's 4307M and 4309 will both handle High pressure-to-low pressure without an issue. I did a search of their knowledge base and found a query of a guy wanting to step down from 45psi to 7 and they recommended both of those part #'s for that application. These are both boost compensating, with the major difference between the two being the adjustment range and the physical size (the 4309 appears physically smaller). They are not expensive (Summit Racing lists them as $75 and $98 (for the 4307M)). I am a happy camper......
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted February 24, 2005 07:31 PM
that's weird I call NOS and they told me no problem using the regluator to go from 50 down to 7
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted February 24, 2005 07:52 PM
quote:
that's weird I call NOS and they told me no problem using the regluator to go from 50 down to 7
Me too.
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 24, 2005 08:46 PM
 Edited By: canadamaxxer on 25 Feb 2005 08:21
This one???
Here is a copy and paste of the reply email:
quote:
Hello,
It's not recommended to go 15psi inlet pressure max.
Thanks
Shane Whitescarver
NOS Technical
Service Representative
Your question was:
I need to know what the maximum inlet pressure spec is for this part #:
15810NOS
Thank you
If you have further questions, please reply directly to this email with history without altering the subject line.
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 25, 2005 08:25 AM
These look and perform better:
I also wrote to Aeromotive. Here is their reply:
quote:
Technically, stopping 60 psi of line pressure and regulating at 5 psi is a
tall order. Aeromotive does not offer a regulator intended for that purpose
and I don't know where you would locate one, Sorry! Let me know if you need
further assistance and good luck!
Brett Clow
Aeromotive Tech Dept
5400 Merriam Dr.
Merriam, KS 66203
PH: 913-647-7300 ext 109
FX: 913-647-7207
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 25, 2005 05:30 PM
I held the 4309 in my hands today. It is by far small enough to fit inside the plennum. It will be more complicated to install (since there is also a return line to run), but is supposed to be deadly accurate....
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted February 27, 2005 02:12 PM
The 02 zx12's have no return lines like on the 00-01's. I have ran the red NOS regulator for over a year. It seams to be working.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted February 27, 2005 06:09 PM
Maxx, I like the Mallory Units ALso! What do they cost? What is the Pressure Range? They do look GOOD!!! 
What is the Length from Screw to Outlet! I would like something "Shorter"! SInce I have already worked out the fuel pressure problem, I would only need one and I like the Black one
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 27, 2005 08:24 PM
Vince,
The black one (4307M) is $89 from Summit racing. It is larger than the 4309 (at $75), which is about 4" from the tip of the set screw to the base. The only functional difference I can determine is the pressure range (3-12 for the 4309 and 4-25 for the 4307M). They both have 4 holes in the top section and a return line out the bottom. Any of those 4 top holes can be an inlet and the other 3 are for outlets and/or pressure gauge. I fully intend on running mine in the plennum....that way the atmospheric port is open to either vacuum or pressure (dependant on ram air pressure)...and it is relatively "Stealthy" (Patent Pending.... )
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted February 28, 2005 07:51 AM
Mine goes from "0" to 15 PSI. Starting around "4" is a little close to exactly what you must meter at 5 PSI ! I am feeling BETTER about my ugly one now
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 28, 2005 09:44 AM
I should have no problem running the 4309 at the required 5 psi. It's recommended for use with carbs, and they typically don't want or need any more than 5 psi.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted February 28, 2005 10:02 AM
quote:
I should have no problem running the 4309 at the required 5 psi. It's recommended for use with carbs, and they typically don't want or need any more than 5 psi.
I agree! I just do not like Chrome or Shinny things! Then again, I am Partial to "Black"
I am glad that you found and were told the same things I was about the Pressure regulators! Makes me feel less stupid!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted February 28, 2005 10:37 AM
This whole situation really makes me question Muzzy's choice of regulators. Are these regulators a ticking time bomb.....ready to burst and pour fuel down the velocity stacks???? Or is there somethings Muzzy's has done to ensure the regulator's survival?
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted February 28, 2005 11:58 AM
Edited By: bossman12r on 28 Feb 2005 11:59
I just brought my red one from an auto parts store. I don't think Muzzy has done anything specail to them.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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