VincentHill
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posted January 09, 2005 05:42 PM
Now to measure NOS Flow?
It is fairly easy to measure Fuel flow, Just see how long it takes to get a certain amount of fuel or see how much fuel you get in a certain amount of time.
I may not be flowing enough NOS and do not know Quantify any measurements. Yes, I can Turn it on and see how long it takes to remove 1 pound of NOS, or see how much weight is used in 15 , 20 or 30 seconds, but how would I know if it was more or less than I should have flowed? Is there any chart I can verify my results with?
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TurboBlew
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posted January 09, 2005 06:21 PM
Ah maybe a dyno?
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted January 10, 2005 04:18 AM
What's the point? You have a jetting chart already. Are you reinventing the wheel again? 
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VincentHill
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posted January 10, 2005 07:35 AM
There is a real good point. Supposed I am not flowing as much NOS as I should for a given amount of "Time"?? Right now, the thinking is that I am rich because of too much fuel. Supposed it is rich because the amount of NOS is leaning out? How would I know? On the Dyno, the HP Spikes to 150 more HP and then slowly at first and then faster the HP Falls off as the A/F richens out.
A #31 NOS Jet with a #28 Fuel Jet is the deal for 150 HP using a NX Fuel Pump at about 6 PSI. AT Maxton, I was using a #24 Fuel Jet and it was off the chart rich. On the Dyno, after the lean spike to about 16 to 1, it would then go straight down to below 10 to 1 A/F. This fall was at a 15 degree angle with the #28 and about a 45 degree angle with the #24.
I now know that part of the problem was using a 250 HP NX Solenoid as opposed to an NOS Solenoid. The NOS Uses about 10 to 12 Amps at WOT but the NX Uses over 30 Amps at WOT "Which may be more than the bike can handle for any period of time". SO I need to test everything Before the fact because when I go back there (Maxton) the amount of power and the duration is "NOT" going to be a question in my mind!
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted January 10, 2005 08:21 AM
Vincent,
Get a Holley catalog. Virtually every question you have asked or are likely to ask regarding nitrous systems is answered in that catalog. It is very complete and informative.
That being said, just like I said about the fuel system, hook it up like you're going to run it, disconnect the fuel pump and hit the button, let 'er rip, time it, and watch the bottle pressure.
Simplify your thinking here.
Doug
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted January 10, 2005 08:51 AM
Weigh the bottle before....hold the button for 10 seconds...weigh it after.
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VincentHill
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posted January 10, 2005 09:11 AM
I will get the catalog which is exactly what I am looking for.
DM And Brian, I understand the "WAY TO MEASURE" but I need something to compare the "RESULTS" to so I know if what I have is correct or not. I think DM Knows what I am trying to do and thanks.
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VincentHill
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posted January 10, 2005 09:13 AM
quote:
Weigh the bottle before....hold the button for 10 seconds...weigh it after.
Brian, did you read this in my first post?
"I may not be flowing enough NOS and do not know Quantify any measurements. Yes, I can Turn it on and see how long it takes to remove 1 pound of NOS, or see how much weight is used in 15 , 20 or 30 seconds, but how would I know if it was more or less than I should have flowed? Is there any chart I can verify my results with?"
Hopefully the NOS Catalog will give the answer 
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted January 10, 2005 09:53 AM
oh..heh..sorry 
You arent likely to find anything terribly helpful in those charts if you are wanting to be "exact". Everything calculated for those is at a specific temperature...and a specific bottle pressure. Neither of which you are likely to duplicate (or encounter at the track/maxton) to any sort of exact degree.
Best you could hope for is "close enough" IMO!
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VincentHill
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posted January 10, 2005 10:21 AM
I do have a "little" control because of the Heater blanket I can turn on to bring the bottle pressure to the correct "Starting" Point. which will put me into the park :! Right now, I am not even in the same country for information. I know "ZIP" about NOS but I do not plad to stay there for ever. I did do a LOT od reading and listening before I started out on this and learned enough not to blow it up using a 150 Shot for an entire weekend and kept the EGT to under 1,300 degrees.
now to make Max power for as long as I need it I really appreciate all of the help I have received here and I even understand why the questions. NOS Is Not simple when you are on the edge and I plan to be on the edge. (As someone said, "If you are not living on the edge, you are wasting space"! I do not plan to waste space!!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted January 10, 2005 06:43 PM
My wheel is round.
Have you tested yours to make sure it's absolutely round?
Because I know that you want proof that's it's actually round! Not just theoretically round, not just giving the visual impression being round, but actually tested and confirmed as being round! A perfect circle!
Dood seriously, I crack myself up sometimes. :-P
Vincent, lighten up, simplify, you'll rest easier and go faster!
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ninja12
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posted January 10, 2005 10:13 PM
Don't take this wrong, but why do you care how much nitrous you use ?
I would think if you get the correct A/F at the hp you want the only time quanity would be important is if you were afraid of running out.
May i suggest you change one variable at time to get the right A/F.
Since you are already at 150 actual hp, you don't need more nitrous but less fuel .
lean spike =6psi liquid + 900 psi gas racing to the nozzels.
are you pulsing the fuel also?
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matt sterbator
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posted January 10, 2005 11:10 PM
quote:
My wheel is round.
Have you tested yours to make sure it's absolutely round?
Because I know that you want proof that's it's actually round! Not just theoretically round, not just giving the visual impression being round, but actually tested and confirmed as being round! A perfect circle!
Vince, in case you were ever curious and wanted to perform your own test, I can assure you at this point, that Mello Yello does NOT feel good coming OUT of your nose.
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VincentHill
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posted January 11, 2005 06:47 AM
Ninja 12 and others, The NOS is not working correctly. With the Suggested settings for 150 HP 31 nos and 28 Fuel, the engine immediately developes 150 more HP. That is the Good News. The Bad news is "AGAIN" So that you can understand after the initial lean from the fuel being slower to move than the NOS, then the engine goes severely rich. It takes a nose dive at about a 45 degree angle on the A/F Chart to below 10 to 1 A/F.
Now seeing this, and if any of you think this is just fine, then visit another thread. for those that think this is not correct, continue to read.
Knowing that even when I lean out the fuel to a #24 Jet that it still does this but takes longer and a gentler dive to 10 to 1 + A/F, means that there is a problem with fuel or NOS. SInce I have now flowed the Jets and see that the amount of fuel flowing is in the same church with a NX Fuel Pump to me, this means that The NOS amount is falling off. I have all High Flow NOS Valves and now need to know "How Much NOS Should be flowing with a #31 NX Jet over a given amount of time (or even any other jet so I can test this" My thinking now is that I may be lean on NOS and not rich on fuel. Again, I think this was caused by the NX Solenoid requiring too much current for my bike to keep up and that the solenoid did not remain open at WOT.
#1 I know what the A/F is at WOT on the Dyno 10 to 1 or richer
#2 I kow what the HP is at the Hit 150 more HP but in less than 1000 rpms it is down and by redline about 30 to 40 more.
Last, the roundness of a wheel can be measured, Does anyone know the amount of NOS being used over any time period using any size jet??
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted January 11, 2005 06:50 AM
What kinda plumbing do you have going from the bottle to the noid...and from the noid to the jets?
I used some of that thin plastic tubing in my original install...it wound up freezing when I started spraying much larger jets and would eventually cut the nitrous flow down to nearly zero after a few seconds (only discovered this in the garage while playin one day).
Possible you have the same situation here?
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VincentHill
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posted January 11, 2005 07:50 AM
Thanks Brian, I just tried to bring up a picture but could not. I have "ALL" Braided Cable lines in and out of the Air Box. But nothing says that this cannot happen to them either. SO this is for sure one place to look.
This scares me because if this is the problem, then I really have a problem because I do not know how I would fix it because I would need to warm the lines to stop that?
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matt sterbator
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posted January 11, 2005 08:56 AM
Forgive me if it's already been mentioned...
Is it possible that the bottle pressure is dropping enough so that the nitrous flow slows down over the course of the run ? You get that first big hit when you crack the bottle open, but over the course of the run, the pressure drops and pressure is all you got pushing the nitrous out of the bottle. The fuel flow is obviously constant.
I don't have much experience with the bottle on bikes, but I've played with it before in my cars. Even with a very small 50 shot (wet system), the pressure in the 10lb bottle would drop maybe 100psi over the course of a 12 sec run. This was with the NX bottle heater that keeps the bottle between 900-1050psi. I can imagine that a 150shot on your bike is more than the 50 shot I was using on my car, and you're only drawing from a 2-2.5lb bottle.
Seems like this is going to happen with a wet system unless you can ensure a constant, steady flow of nitrous over the course of your run.
Maybe that 150hp is only at the spike, and not all the way across the board ? Can a 2.5lb bottle supply enough nitrous at that rate to maintain constant bottle pressure ?
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted January 11, 2005 09:07 AM
Eh...people spray a helluva lot more using those small 4an braided lines (at least im assuming thats what you are usin) without them freezing up...although I would inquire as to what KIND of line you are using. Teflon coated or rubber coated? Nitrous doesnt play well with one.
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NINJA12
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posted January 11, 2005 09:23 AM
Vince my guess is that it is jetted way to rich, but the nitrous is winning the race to the noz. when the fuel get there it's too rich.
If you can get the fuel soleniod closer to the noz the spike should be less severe and then you could work on tuning. my .02
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aliveagain
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posted January 11, 2005 10:31 AM
I was thinking perhaps the fuel isn't being atomized enough or that the nitrogen is buffering the ignition enough to thwart complete combustion.How about different plugs.How do you know its the nitrous and not something else giving you a rich reading?
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VincentHill
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posted January 11, 2005 10:43 AM
YCIS and N12, as I said, NOW we are getting somewhere. N12 what you said is 100% correct about the spike lean. I have installed a Bypass regulator and plan to use higher pressure with smaller jets to speed up the timing of the fuel and have the correct amount.
Brian, Remember the severe problems I had with the bike running caused by a pinched fuel line? what I am thinking is that maybe the severe bending of the NOS lines and the cold temp may be causing a blockage. So what I am going to see is if "I" Can see a decrease of flow over maybe 10 to 15 seconds when I spray the NOS . Then Spray the NOS for 30 seconds (Just as everything in the bike sits and weigh the Bottle. Then straighten everything out and do another 30 seconds and weigh the bottle again and see if there is a difference.
Maybe I have to get new ends and cut and reconfigure the lines on Both sides. Just like the fuel pump in the tank and everything else tested OK but when I pushed the tank down, it changed! Thanks Guys!
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aliveagain
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posted January 11, 2005 02:26 PM
Stupid question but is the bottle full?I'm told you can have pressure and no liquid,just wondering about the syphon tube also.
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VincentHill
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posted January 11, 2005 06:01 PM
quote:
Stupid question but is the bottle full?I'm told you can have pressure and no liquid,just wondering about the syphon tube also.
"NO" Question is stupid when you are dealing with a problem that has no cure!
To answer yours and Matt's, these things happened on the Duno using a "JUST" Filled 10 pound Bottle with a heater keeping it warm.
Second, I start the run with about 1050 Psi and turn "On" the heater and finish the run with about 950 PSI (As quickly as I can stop and look! Maybe in 15 seconds because I look at the pressure in the Shut down area)
Thanks (I mean this)
Right now, my next rest will be to see if the tight turns in the airbox vs. the lines being almost straight will make any difference? Like Brian said I could be frosting up because the tight turns make a constriction where the cold makes ice?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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aliveagain
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posted January 12, 2005 07:52 PM
VH,do you have a no2 filter that might of picked up some shit?
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted January 13, 2005 04:04 AM
unless you have a leak, bends in the line wont make any difference
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