TurboBlew
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posted December 11, 2004 09:45 PM
frEEk.... your only solution is to move to a warmer climate...lol
Oh the problems of winter... I dont miss them at all!!!!!!!
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Spyral
Pro
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posted December 12, 2004 05:51 AM
Florida had winter, last night. It got cold. Like 40 degrees.
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tuusinii
Pro
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posted December 12, 2004 11:09 PM
Driving 6 monts per Year on ice (with car with suds) and the ohter with bike (without ice :-)) I'd say that if You really plan to ride in the snow You have to have studs. Of course not those with ice-racing but regular car stud. A motocross tire wont be cood but are probably the easiest to find. The other problem is that wintertires should be much softer and have more threadpattern - especially those little pattern to give You enough traction. And there isin't ones on the market - probably because of the lack of sales :-) But anyway it would be better if there isin't that many studs on the center so pavement riding is better and more on the edges so if something happens You may survive. Of course this approach hinders taking advantage of more leanangles on dry but You can't have all. And by the way what bike are You planning on riding?
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted December 12, 2004 11:52 PM
tuunisii, you just did an amazing job of covering just about every piece of info i'v been able to find on winter tires, and it took me hours over several days to find it all (there's VERY little written on teh subject). of course, given where you're from, i'm not too surprised. most of the info on winter riding has come from sweden, finland, and norway. i wish i could get a trelleborg t-644 in a 150 isntead of just a 130 width. it would be perfect. i'm trying to use the 12r, which is where all the problems come into play. if it was a dual sport or dirtbike, i'd have no problem (or at least alot less problems). i'll get it working eventually! and if i ever run out of inspriation, i can just read some of vince's threads again 
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SilverD
Zone Head
Tour Guide
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posted December 13, 2004 12:09 PM
 Edited By: SilverD on 13 Dec 2004 13:57
quote:
Florida had winter, last night. It got cold. Like 40 degrees.
Peoples concepts of cold can sure differ. I was in Phoenix and on the news was a report of a neighbourhood where the natural gas had been cut off for a night due to a vehicle accident of somekind. The news was showing all these people building bonfires in their yards to keep warm, thought they were going to freeze, and it was like 65 F outside. Yeah cool for Phoenix, but oh so far from freezing..
A waitress in a Phoenix resturant blew me away once, no not that, get yer minds out of the gutter. I had arrived from Vancouver, was telling her it was snowing at home when I left, she looked dreamily off in the distance and said, yeah, I'd like to see snow someday!!! I burst out laughing, she had a chuckle to.
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frEEk
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posted December 13, 2004 07:10 PM
65F?!? there's not a single room in my plave heated that high! nuts.
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tuusinii
Pro
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posted December 13, 2004 11:26 PM
Edited By: tuusinii on 13 Dec 2004 23:27
It pays something to live here... And I did a little investigation on winter tires here in Finland. There are numberous people riding in the winter. And usually they do their own wintertires. They start with some soft tire and drill and put the studs to the tires. I don't know about US but here every tireretailer has this stud gun to put the studs to the tires. Maybe it is harder to find in US if You're not allowed to use studs but I'd say that there are those. One persen said that he used regular truck-studs which are a little bigger than the car-studs and hence better but not too big. He also said that it would be wice to glue them to the tires so they'll last bettert. He said that Loctite480 was very good for it (http://www.loctite.fi/Producthtmfi/fi480.htm). And if You're riding ZX - as I was afraid of  - it would maybe be wice to change the fuelling and timing so that the power responce is as soft as possible. You know on the ice You cant use all the HP anyway... And one very good advice is to get heated grips - if You don't allready have those. If it isin't that strict in the US I'd think that some wet RR-tire would be a good strating point - but I could be completely wrong. One problem with soft tires is that the studs don't hold in them, but the glue should help on that. You know - the winter tires they make nowadays are constructed so that there is harder rubber around the studs but otherwice the tire is like a studless tire with a lot of that microthreadpattern. So then You get the good on both worlds: studs for the ice and pattern to the snow. And what ever You do - keep the rubberside down...
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frEEk
Administrator
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posted December 14, 2004 12:13 AM
i heard the suggestion about truck studs too. i need to keep the studs as snall as possible though as I need decent performance on asphalt too, and the mroe the studs protrude, the worse they are on dry pavement. unfortunately using a rain tire is no good frmo hat i've read. you need a rather agressive knobbie to bite into the snow. even the Conti TKC-80 is said to have too much rubber for snow use. smoothing the power delivery is definitely a must. i dont even have a PC at this point, so i have that lovely super-abrupt fuel injection of the 00. it's impossible to be smooth with that thing!
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tuusinii
Pro
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posted December 14, 2004 05:26 AM
Yes the TKC really aren't what You need. At least without studs they don't hold at all on ice. But I think that (because Your riding ZX) You really don't need knobbies. I'd start with some regular tire and just added the studs. I don't know but I'd think that You're going to be mostly riding on pavement and only ones and a while on snow. The knobbies don't help at all on ice. On snow they can, but usually the tires made for mud get really stucked on snow and are then slicks. Regular tires work better for the road and occasional ice/snow. It sound weird but thats the way it works. Maybe You could add some very minor - like 0,5-1mm wide patterns to the tires by Yourself. That would really be the answer - with studs off course...
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jonwright
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posted December 14, 2004 07:44 AM
Dude - you need to either buy a beater dual sport or a beater car.
Riding a 12 in the snow would be challenging to say the least. Wouldn't handle slides too well and the inevitable drop.
Stop the insanity!
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frEEk
Administrator
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posted December 14, 2004 01:45 PM
tuusinii, interesting info there. from what i'v heard the tkc's arent good in snow because there is too much rubber, so it doesnt really bite into the snow. but those who said that were talking about lighter dual sports, so u may have a point. we don't have much ice here, tho we do have plenty of hard packed snow that can get to be almost ice. that's the place where i'm concerned about tread pattern, when it's pretty hard, but not quite hard enough for the studs to really do their job. i dont have too much deep snow i have to deal with, tho it would be handy occasionally if i could get thru it well. but you are right, the conditions i deal with are mostly slush (from just a dusting to fairly deep) and medium to hard packed snow, and of course the lovely thaw & refreeze crap that's half way between ice and packed snow. i may just try the tkc's after all but cut the tread blocks a little smaller. i definitly plan on syping [sp] them myself in any case. it sounds like you have a fair bit of experience with riding in snow/ice yourself ?
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frEEk
Administrator
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posted December 14, 2004 01:47 PM
and jon, i have a beater truck with studded snow tires i could use for the minor cost of insurance, but i'd rather try the bike. i just think it would be a hoot. and believe me i understand how challenging it would be. rode once in the snow with my 014s, and it werent pretty. i expect a drop or too, and need to get a crash cage fitted asap for that reason.
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tuusinii
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posted December 14, 2004 11:16 PM
Well, hope You get it dialed and it works without too big crashes. My snowriding ability on two wheels come from younger years with 50cc mopeds which we rode the Year a round and every month when I start my bikes during winter anr ride them in our yard to get the engines hot. Whit zx its quite easi if You don't lean the bike and the ground is covered with snow but with my brothers KTM (with TKC) I can barely ride the thing. But it can be also because it has only one cylinder. But the road tires work better... Of course when they slipp they do it quite quicly. (there the studs and more thread would help) And here in Finland we has this very legendary enduro race every spring when there still is snow in the ground. Its called Päitsi (it's, like 500 km around a lake in the woods). Some racers use also there road tires when there is a lot of snow. And the first one who did so sometime in the 80' won the whole thing!!! But anyway don't forget to also check/change Your coolant rating and use some light oil when it gets cold... You'll hav fun. Oh, and it would probably be wise to loosen the suspension also...
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frEEk
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posted December 15, 2004 12:18 AM
interesting that you said you can ride your zx better with street tires than a ktp with TKCs. what tires exactly are you talking about? like Bridgestone 014s or something? i can only guess that may have to do with the exact snow conditions. we don't get real sticky snow here too often. usually it's closer to slush. that's where i worry that knobbies may be required. but i'll prolly try TKCs just cause i havent found anything else that appears even close. unfortunately the 150mm width TKC is a bias tire. not sure what to make of that or how it will effect things. i seem to remember hearing that you just can't use a bias-ply tire on a bike made for radials (i assume that's the same as a bias-belt?). they don't last long either, surprisingly. ugh, why can't i get a nice pair of properly sized slicks with like 15mm+ of car-snow-tire-compound rubber so i can just cut my own tire? plus it would actually last more than a few thousand miles.
yup, got some 0W30 oil goin in, hopefulyl tomorrow. good point on the suspension. was thinking that earlier. prolly take the preload out completely and back off all teh compression and most of the rebound too.
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tuusinii
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posted December 15, 2004 04:56 AM
Yes, I mean like Pilot Sports or like. The problem is that You either have traction or don't, there isin't anything between, but there the studs and more pattern would help. But it could be impossible to put the studs, because there isin't enough rubber... But maybe some older - now like sporttouring tire would be good.
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SPROCKET
Expert Class
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posted December 15, 2004 11:47 AM
Get some training wheels.
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jonwright
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posted December 25, 2004 07:59 PM
So I rode my dirt bike yesterday in the snow. All I have to say is if you are considering riding the 12 in snow: WOW. You are da man.
I sure as hell wouldn't do it. A dual sport like a DRZ400 or KLR - yeah, all day long. Just couldn't imagine with the weight and HP of a 12 in the snow. Jeez.
Here's a thread with a guy that rides on ice and shiznit. Naturally, I have no clue what the hell he's talking about, but maybe you'd like to Email him.
http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=87682
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mattie_k
Zone Head
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posted December 25, 2004 08:30 PM
Ok freek, my chistmas present to you is that Maxxis makes supermoto tires, lots of tread almost wet slick style but not as pricey. Get yourself a straight razor blade and " customize" some winter tire type siping and off to the races my boy!
Or join the ranks of rednecks in our area and buy a freekin' SNOWMOBILE!!!
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dougmeyer
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posted December 29, 2004 01:32 PM
frEEk,
I grew up in Chicago and for at least one winter commuted on a '77 Z1R.
If riding in the winter keep in mind this one thing:
It's not IF you're going to fall down, but WHEN and HOW MANY TIMES.
Doug
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D
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posted January 03, 2005 05:06 PM
Edited By: D on 3 Jan 2005 17:09
http://www.WinterStuds.com
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frEEk
Administrator
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posted January 03, 2005 06:47 PM
seems to be a fair amount of info on spiked tires liek the ones above, but little on studded. after a run in a couple weeks ago with the local constabulary that included my bike being removed from the road via tow truck, i am free to ride my bike again IF i have snow/M&S tires. so far the Continental TKC80s are the only tires i'v seen with that designation. Unfortuantely i'v read that they're a bad choice for snow tires cause they don't bite, plus they're bias-belt. still may be my only choice. will have to take a very careful blade to them and make some modifications to improve their performance in snow, plus add studs. hopefully that will do the trick. anyone know if you _can_ even run a bias belt tire on a bike designed for radials?
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frEEk
Administrator
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posted January 03, 2005 06:49 PM
doug, i do expect to go down a few times, hence the reason i have been working on getting a crash cage installed before i hit any snow, like the style stunters use. plus i never need to go above 60 in adverse conditions, and only in low traffic areas. otherwise i wouldnt even attempt it.
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tuusinii
Pro
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posted January 03, 2005 10:47 PM
You did notice that the above site offers also regular and truck studs? Many peaople who ride in the winter use those Trelleborg studtires...
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D
Needs a job
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posted January 04, 2005 07:21 AM
quote:
doug, i do expect to go down a few times, hence the reason i have been working on getting a crash cage installed before i hit any snow, like the style stunters use. plus i never need to go above 60 in adverse conditions, and only in low traffic areas. otherwise i wouldnt even attempt it.
Might check 905 Racing (I think - find their link offa SoCal RPM).
Any reason ya can't mount a car tire like a Blizzak?
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frEEk
Administrator
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posted January 04, 2005 12:44 PM
Edited By: frEEk on 4 Jan 2005 12:46
tuusinii, yes i noticed that. i'v read that truck studs are a common choice. can't use spiked tires liek trelleborgs cause they'd be useless on pavement.
D, i actually looked at them after the seattle bike show cause LVX had a booth there with one of their bikes, and it was sporting a solid-looking 905 cage. i will prolly go with 5th Gear tho, a local outfit, cause 905 doesnt have a cage for a 12r and i cant ride down there jsut to have it made not sure how i would use a car tire on a bike tho?!? u know what tho, that does bring up an interesting (and VERY experimental) possibility. how about retreading a bike tire with teh tread from a blizzak! remembered tomohawk is doing retreads, so what's stoping u frmo mixing a bike base & a car tread? hmmm.... of course, it's so wacky it'd prolly not work, but u never know. where's that tire engineer? 
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