DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
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posted September 29, 2004 01:20 AM
................but it still was out of warranty.
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Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
  
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted September 29, 2004 02:57 AM
kangpow: if you know from past experience what DJ's answer will be to you, then why would you offer to 'help' when you already know the answer you'll get is no.......
they are probably right, there probably are NOT any major failure issues with the PC3R that would allow them to call it major flaw, just enough to be annoying... nothing that has been issued a recall on....
the truth of the matter is this, for THEM there was no remedy, except they had a new one in stock that would get you on the road again....
but i forget, they are just a bunch of greedy SOBs right?
now, they have seen that another dealer CAN get DJ to back their equipment better, and perhaps they can push some buttons a little harder next time (if something should happen in the future) and perhaps GET the same results. because now they have a precedent.... "hey look, i had customer, and told him i had no way to warrant a PC3R that failed. and another dealer managed to get you people to warrant your product after warranty expired, what gives??"
something to think about....
or you can keep pissing in the wind, either way it makes no nevermind to me. i don't have any dogs in this race, just tired of the petty whining that people seem to like to do on internet just because they can...or for whatever reason. a good legitimate gripe "this retailer took my cash and never sent my goods" or similar is perfectly fine.... but the whole "he wouldn't warrant my part 6 months after the warrranty expired" crap is for the birds....
   
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted September 29, 2004 04:32 AM
quote:
Problem Solved
I stopped by the motorcycle shop where I bought my last 3 bikes. I told the guy who runs the shop about my PC3R, so he called Dynojet and they are going to fix it for free. All I have to pay is shipping.
Now that is customer service.
Now isnt that great that Muzzys told you to do that in the first place. glad you got the problem solved.
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vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
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posted September 29, 2004 04:33 AM
i was also able to send my fried pc3 back to dj and they sent me a new one... i was also out of my warranty period!!
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted September 29, 2004 04:33 AM
quote:
Problem Solved
I stopped by the motorcycle shop where I bought my last 3 bikes. I told the guy who runs the shop about my PC3R, so he called Dynojet and they are going to fix it for free. All I have to pay is shipping.
Now that is customer service.
Now isnt that great that Muzzys told you to do that in the first place. glad you got the problem solved.
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Ra12r
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posted September 29, 2004 05:29 AM
Slug your position sounds like you feel Muzzy is a new small business that doesn't know very much and has a short track record in the biking world. I am glad you don't own any products or have EVER had retail issues.
Kangpow's issue was also EASY to solve. My issue was EASY to solve. But neither issue was solved. What Kanpow and I have in common is that Muzzy did not try to service their customers. A little effort can go a long way.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted September 29, 2004 07:16 AM
Ra, I really believe that Muzzy is in NO WAY responsible for your case. In my opinion you have an issue with the person who sold you the basket. and really all they have to do is call Muzzy and send the basket in for the core charge refund. So who is really the ass here? The guy you bought the basket from! I hope you do not do business with him anymore! I say your caught in a bad situation. Some times business is Black and White. if they took your word that you ordered the part (which you did! no reason to lie here) and refunded your money, they would have to do that with just about everyone. so any Joe could send in a basket and get a deposit back for it. Now that would not be fair to Muzzys. You really were put into a bad situation and if I ever have one of my customers that needs a core! dude I will call you so you can get your $$ back that way. I will help you out if I can.
Mad Mike
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MadMike
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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted September 29, 2004 07:23 AM
Oh I forgot to add, you can log a complaint about a dealer to Muzzy! I would say that way if they get a couple of complaints maybe they would pull their dealer association with that company! why would anyone want someone trying to represent their company if all they did was screw over their customers! Well I can not speak for Mr. Muzzy or Doug. But if or when I own a company the size and style of Muzzys I would keep track of any problem customers (which are the distrubiters for them) and if I saw a trend I would sever the business relationship.
again this is only my opinion of a bad situation and all and all if it helps a young or old businessman out, it has all been a good topic.
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dougmeyer
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moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted September 29, 2004 08:01 AM
Thanks all,
This is why I like to promote discussions like these a little bit. Everybody gets a look at the way this great business works, how it needs to work to work effectively. I'm reminded of something I learnned when I was a Kaw-Hon-Suz dealer. A dealer is an independant business. Their relationship with a manufacturer is that of seller - customer. The seller (mfg.) can decide who he wants to sell to but cannot tell that customer (dlr) how to run his business and treat HIS customers. They simply can't. There is no LEGAL way to enforce that kind of direction unless there is an ownership realtionship ("company store"). You all have seen the complaint about a jerk motorcycle or car dealer and wonder why if you call the OEM mfg. nothing happens. That's why. The same relationship exists between the mfg and re-seller of any product. The plot thickens even more when there is a distributor (or jobber in auto terms) between the mfg. and the ultimate retail seller. I appreciate your frustration Ra, and all I can say is sometimes some calm explanation to the right people can get things done. An example would be a recent problem with EastBayDave's steering damper that was years out of warranty. It tooks some phone calls, some time and a few personal relationships, but we got him a reduced price on a new unit from the mfg. WITH WHOM HE DEALT DIRECTLY.
Hey, nobody in this industry works harder at this than we do, but nobody knows better than I that you just can't please everybody all the time.
Again, thanks for everybodys comments.
Doug
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koz
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Posts: 304
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posted September 29, 2004 08:38 AM
Kangpow & Ra12r,
The problem is that when businesses grow into big companies they loose sight of what made them successful, the CUSTOMER. Dynojet has lost sight of this years ago. It looks and sounds like Muzzys is following Dynojet. The reason Home Depot is still growing and doing well is because they have not LOST sight of the customers. If a local dealer could help you (even though you did not buy the item from them), that tell you that Muzzys could have done the same, but they apparently do not care about you, as a customer. I have always promoted Muzzys products (which are very good) but there is more to buying good products then just that. Customer service in most cases is MORE important because no products are perfect. To keep a GOOD customer you sometimes have to eat problem parts to keep the customer coming back/happy. My way of expressing the way I feel is to find someone else to purchase what I need, even if it is an inferior product or more expensive. I would rather buy an inferior product or pay more with better customer service, then to deal with someone who does not stand behind the products they sell.
Koz
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Canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted September 29, 2004 08:43 AM
What I fail to understand about this whole situation is why kangpow originally felt that this is somehow Muzzy's (or even Dynojet's) fault. The part was 18 months old. The warranty is one year. Where is the issue? The part was out of warranty by 6 months! I understand that this is an unfortunate situation (which I'm glad is resolved) and that I would feel upset if I was to have a similar thing happen, but the difference is that I accept that the warranty is one year. I would have made the same phone calls to ATTEMPT to get somebody to step up and help me, but I accept that this is an offer they can choose to extend to me and that if they chose to not extend it to me, that I had NO RIGHT to DEMAND it and no right to bitch about crappy customer service. If people want to bitch about the crappy product, then they should do it, and vote with their wallets.
I guess I look at this differently than most people, since I'm in the automotive trade (GM tech), and have to deal with this on a daily basis. The problem in my situation is that when the customer bitches hard enough, and gets warranty on some vehicle that never should have been warranty, it costs me money personally. This is because the flat rate charge for a warranty repair typically is about 60-70% of the retail pay out. This mean to me that a whiney customer costs me 30-40% on my paycheck at the end of the month....and there is no way for me to write off that loss on income tax. It's just a "suck it up, princess" situation.
The same is true to a point about companies such as Dynojet If they CHOOSE to repair a failed component, that is a goodwill situation and they alone have the right to make that decision. That decision costs the company money, all for the sake of their own good name within the market.....and most customers don't appreciate that fact at all. In fact most seem to think that is the standard, instead of accepting that a warranty is only so long. Why people seem to think that companies have the requirement to supply an unlimited warranty is beyond me. Dynojet cannot control any of the outside factors that could have caused the Powercommander to fail (moisture, heat, shock, impact, poor installation, over voltage, etc), and yet when they do step up and repair the problem, the typical customer attitude is that they did exactly what they were required to, instead of realizing that the company did an exceptional thing for them.
Muzzy's is in no way responsible for the part failure...in the same way that Home Depot is not responsible for a failed lightbulb that a person bought in 2002. They never built it, they just sold it.
Ra12R: If you bought the clutch basket from a dealer, who in turn bought it from Muzzy's, then Muzzy's is the wholesaler, and your dealer was the retailer. The basket core has to be returned to the dealer, who pays you the core charge. The dealer then turns around and returns the core to Muzzy's and gets a core credit. You can't bypass the system. Muzzy's has a return authorization number typically, and without it there is no proper return procedure. Your dealer will possess that number. If the dealer is fucking you over then your beef is with them, not Muzzy's. It is not even reasonable to expect Muzzy's to be able to do anything for a 2nd generation customer...even to ask Muzzy's to put pressure on the dealer is asking a lot. While the customer service rep is trying to help you, 10 other customers are getting crappy service and are on hold waiting to speak to a rep.......and all of this effort is for the wholesale price that Muzzy's was paid from your dealer. It doesn't make sense...how is it even fair to ask such a thing?
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lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted September 29, 2004 11:40 AM
even home depot , lowes and walmart are keeping some manufactures alive by selling their products and now they are not just covering that type of service anymore.they even have you ship to the manufacture even when its under warranty. home depot is going through a workforce reduction right now. walmart want treat its employes right. and lowes is increasing a little for now. dj sells thousands of power comm. only a few go bad. i wonder if its because the owner lets them get wet, or if they let the wiring short to some metal on the bike, or if they have a electrical spike that throws the throttle calibration off like letting a battery arc while replacing it or even charging it and not knowing how to reset it (or not the computer to do so) to get it working properly. a lot of times we owners need to check behind ourselves when we do have problems. and then always know that no product, no manufacture, and no person is perfect.
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kangpow
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted September 29, 2004 12:06 PM
My problem has been solved so I will not be posting on this subject anymore
Thanks for everyone's input
Thanks for Muzzys Great Products
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kangpow
Expert Class
Posts: 144
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posted September 29, 2004 12:16 PM
Sorry one more thing.
Please post any nude pics of your sisters, because I like to wack off !!!!!!!!
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted September 29, 2004 03:11 PM
 Edited By: slug on 29 Sep 2004 16:13
quote:
Slug your position sounds like you feel Muzzy is a new small business that doesn't know very much and has a short track record in the biking world. I am glad you don't own any products or have EVER had retail issues.
Kangpow's issue was also EASY to solve. My issue was EASY to solve. But neither issue was solved. What Kanpow and I have in common is that Muzzy did not try to service their customers. A little effort can go a long way.
i have had retail issues, but they were WELL within the service period.
i bought a brand new computer, one month later motherboard is fried. so i send it back TO THE MANUFACTURER,they send new one
warranty...
a few harddrives crash hard, no explicable reason. 6 months old. send them back TO THE MANUFACTURER, replaced for free. NQA.
warranty....
bike stops charging battery, stator is shot. replaced for free.(paid for by the MANUFACTURER)
warranty....
water pump on truck dies....it was 5 years old....
warranty was 3 years....
sure, in perfect world water pump ought to last longer than 5 years, i can think of MANY vehicle si ahve owned with 10,15, 20 years of life on water pump.
should i bitch to GM because the pump failed "prematurely" ?
i didn't even try.....
just buy a new one and install it.
a one year warranty is a GENEROUS warranty, because, especially with electronics, if a manufacturing defect causes failure it WILL show up quickly. after that point it is wear & tear...
the manufacturer should NOT be reponsible for something out of their control...if htey screwed up making it or in the design, yes. but if it quits working after a time, that is beyond the warranty period, then that's it...
No, i don't consider Muzzy's new, or inexperienced, but they aren't huge....it is not like they are dynojet, or yamaha, or like home depot. i don't know that they have the time or manning to pay someone to go to extraordinary lengths for every person that has a problem with a product they didn't design, build, or make...
i don't get your problem RA.... in your eyes, just because Home Depot eats a 69 dollar drill, that means Muzzy's has to eat a 300 dollar power commander?
the funds that they lose eating things like that are taken from the R&D they do to make the good parts they make...and then people will bitch and moan because they don't have the newest models covered with add-ons and fancy bits within 3 months of model release.....
if the PC3R was 6 months old, and within warranty, and Muzzy's refused to help out, then i could see some sort of complaint, even though "you need to talk to Dynojet" is STILL the correct help for the situation......
but hey, they OWE you right?
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kangpow
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posted September 29, 2004 03:50 PM
(((( I have a blue and gold '02 12r with 19,6k miles. Recently i was doing some adjusting on the throttle cables when i pushed aside part of the wiring harness. To my surprise, I found a huge crack in the airbox. on the right side and continued thru the bottom. Out of warranty, i took it to a dealer anyway. No one around here has ever seen or heard of anything like it. Maybe it was just my lucky day but they took some pics and made some calls. i just got word yesterday that kawasaki is gonna replace the frame and pay all the costs. I was truly surprised about that. Bad thing is that was gonna cost me the rest of the riding season here in indiana. so i went out and bought an '04. maybe i'll keep the '02 for something like track days. I never thought kawasaki would have stepped up to the plate like they did. It's a good thing because i am a total believer in that 12r machine. being a sumo class rider, i couldn't imagine riding anything else. ))))
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kangpow
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posted September 29, 2004 03:55 PM
Lets see the people he bought the bike from, called the people who made the bike !!!!
It was out of warranty !!!!!!
Just FUCKING WITH YOU HA HA HA
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted September 29, 2004 04:41 PM
yeh you are right, sorry
hey doug: shame on you for not bending over backwards for something earth-shakingly important like the PC3R.
how could i be so stupid? That PC3R probably would have made the bike fall apart and kill the rider. And that core charge the dealer refused to refund starved someone's kids to death. how could i be so heartless!!!
Doug: it appears that you folks need to hire another person to handle the problems from the stuff that you sell that you didn't make. i suggest RA, as he appears to have EXCELLENT skills and attitude towards others. and being a victim of such evil non-customer-service-having retailers as yourselves, he'll know EXACTLY how to epitomize customer service.
And i would also hire kangpow, as he too has been victimized by your moneygrubbing corporate greed.
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kangpow
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posted September 29, 2004 04:45 PM
(((( A big THANK YOU to Doug Meyer @ Muzzys for going above & beyond the call of duty! My Muzzys damper (Hyperpro) decided to leak all its oil all over the bike, so somewhat miffed I call Muzzys & am told (by "Dave") it's out of warranty, sorry, tough luck. Oh, now I'm really mad...
Now, if some of you who've been around awhile recall; many of them were defective new, & Muzzys took care of everyone under warranty at the time. Mine was new but not leaking (I don't ride this bike much.) My inquiry to Dave @ Muzzys (2 yrs. ago) is "what do I do if it fails later," he says "we will take care of it!" Wow...very cool.
Fast forward 2 years. Now it's leaking, & it's out of warranty says Dave. He doesn't recall our previous conversation (that's expected as he talks to thousands of customers) Uh oh, now what do I do? He gives me a number for the US Distributor Micron, & I call them. Seeking any help at all, I get a quote of a much too high of a price for a "rebuild" of my existing damper. "No, wait a minute I was promised it would be covered." Micron was of no help as expected as they have no knowledge of what Dave @ Muzzys promised at the time..."that is the deal, that's it."
So, I send an e-mail to Doug Meyer @ Muzzys w/all the details. Doug calls & says "let me see what I can do." He didn't have to do this, but he did anyway. COOL Doug!!!! So, some number of days & phone calls later, Doug gets me in touch w/Mike at Micron, who gets me a much better deal on a new "replacement/exchange" of my original. All I have to do is ship my old one; & they will ship me a new one for an inconsequential fee.
A few days later I ship the old one back, & a ~couple weeks later, a new damper arrives in the box brand new & ready to go. I liked the looks of the old one better, but hey, beggars can't be choosy. I mount it up, & bingo I'm back in business. Awesome!!!
I post this now as I want to publicly thank the folks @ Muzzys, Micron, & especially Doug Meyer for taking care of me. They didn't have to, & considering I am not a big customer like some, Doug went way, way, WAY above & beyond the call of duty. Doug made at least 4-5 calls/e-mails to Micron, even while out racing & on the road! He didn't have to take the time out of his busy racing schedule to do this....DOUG & MUZZYS ROCKS!!!
This kind of customer service is why I keep going back to Muzzys, they are the best.
Thank you again Doug! All the best...
Dave ))))
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kangpow
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Posts: 144
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posted September 29, 2004 04:47 PM
Edited By: kangpow on 29 Sep 2004 17:49
I think I am addicted to posting now !!!!!!
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kangpow
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posted September 29, 2004 05:10 PM
Slug
I have a job for you. That is if you are from West Virginia !!!
Just joking Dud, Don't get your panties in a up roar !!!!
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kangpow
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posted September 29, 2004 05:11 PM
You know I love you !
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted September 30, 2004 02:41 AM
so which kangpow do we beleive?
in most of the posts here, you are slamming muzzy's for poor service, then you start praising them for their service.....
you sound like a john kerry ad....
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kangpow
Expert Class
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posted September 30, 2004 12:21 PM
Slug
Don't tell me we are both Republicans, now I have to be nice to you.
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted October 01, 2004 05:27 AM
Slug, I think by your own words "Karma" will give you a wonderful experience to teach you about what you are not understanding in the area of customer service. Should I be empathetic or feel that you are getting what you deserve as a consumer when that happens?? YOU TELL ME!
I did attempt to place a complaints against the dealer, however it was not something that Muzzy was interested in recieving. I tried all routes to return my core. It just wasn't worth going to court against "their" dealer. All I wanted from Muzzy's was a "alternative" solution to submitting them the core. I repeat, I had ALL the order numbers to validate my purchase and core deposit. Muzzy's would not be eating anything to return the money "I" submitted to secure that I would return a core. All I did was OVERPAY to own a billet basket. I am NOT trying to get my core deposit back any more(3 years ago). I had just spend over $2000 on ONE order and didn't expect what I recieved in response.
Slug if you don't understand Kangpow's replys and quotes above, then stop replying, cause he has demonstrated a VERY CLEAR point.
Doug and Rob, please understand that I consider business as business. No you will NEVER make everyone happy ALL the time. However, I did not ever address either of you in regards to the core matter. Your dealer is/was an ASS and a THIEF! However, even though I may challenge what the political correct positions are on this website regarding your company, I am not hyperfocused on my experiences with your company. My experiences led me to superceed the parts that you offer. However, it does provoke me to reply occassionally to some of the things that is posted by either of you regarding multiple topics. Until next time.............
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