osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted September 10, 2004 10:03 AM
 Edited By: osti33 on 17 Sep 2004 11:10
Cooling system issues... ( Fixed now)
Ok guys, help me out. Here's the deal. When I run my bike for a while some coolant goes into the overflow tank. The problem is when you shut the bike off and it cools down the coolant doesn't go back in the radiator. I have let the bike cool overnight and the coolant is still in the overflow tank. Then if you pull the radiator cap off you get a shhhh sound and the coolant is about an inch or two low in the radiator.
I'm pretty sure it isn't a head gasket. No water in the oil or oil in the water. No compression in the coolant.(i.e. no bubbles in the radiator when the engine is running.) It isn't burning any coolant. No white smoke and if I take the excess coolant out of the overflow tank and put it in the radiator it fills the radiator back full. So I'm not actually loosing any coolant...
I tried a couple of simple things.
New radiator cap... Same problem.
Any and I mean ANY ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
  
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted September 10, 2004 10:17 AM
Some things I can think of:
1) check the routing and condition of the overflow hose. I would remove it, plug one end and pressurize the hose. It is possible for the hose to allow coolant from the radiator without leakage, and yet suck air instead of coolant due to a slit or split.
2) confirm that the hose is actually sitting in coolant in the overflow tank.
or
3) If I remember correctly the hose comes in the top of the tank and connects into a cast-in passageway in the bottle. The bottle could be cracked as well.
4) thermostat failure?
5) trapped air bubble in the cooling system?
6) is the overflow hose connected to the correct fitting on the radiator? Don't laugh...I have seen it before, and it exhibited the same symptoms. Is this possible on the 12? I can't remember.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted September 10, 2004 10:29 AM
I am having a similar problem with my 12...Since I started using MR9!!!...When my bike cools down in the extreme 90 degree humid weather after an hour the anti-freeze goes back into the radiator...
I am told that this is a Kawasaki trait and to leave the overflow tank empty...
I think its the radiator, the cooling fins are disrupted from the inside front fender due to the forks lowered and strapped, maybe the thermostat???...I am going to change it over the winter, not looking forward to it though, what a bitch to get in there...
If anyone else has any input speak up we will be very appreciative!!!
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted September 10, 2004 11:04 AM
Edited By: osti33 on 10 Sep 2004 12:04
Canadamaxxer,
Thanks for all the ideas. I am sure the overflow hose is routed correctly. I will pressure check the hose for splits or cracks.
Could be a thermostat or maybe air in the system...Looks like I need to dig a little deeper.
I don't think it is air in the system. I haven't had any trouble all summer until just recently. However at this point I am not counting anything out...
Crotchrocket,
You say your coolant does eventually go back in the radiator. Mine doesn't. Even after cooling down overnight.
Your idea about the radiator fins being disrupted is interesting because my bike is also lowered and strapped.
Thanks guys.
Anyone else??
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 10, 2004 11:05 AM
Osti,
A crack in the overflow hose is my guess; its not able to sustain the small vacuum which is needed to pull the coolant back into the rad when the bike cools down. Unless somehow the hose going to the coolant tank got connected to the top rather than the bottom???
Take a mytivac and pull a vacuum on the overflow hose where it goes into the neck of the rad; you should pull coolant outa the overflow tank up to the mytivac.
CR,
when the motor is cold the overflow tank coolant level should be between the marks; when hot the level goes higher, then when it cools down, it should go back to exactly where it was before.
BTW
The way I get air outa my system is to fill the rad and the bottle to between the marks, then disconnect the fan and run the temp up to 10:00 or 11:00. Fluid will move to the tank when the motor gets hot. Let it cool off, add fluid to the radiator AND to the overflow tank; then repeat the process. This seems to get all the air out in a very painless fashion.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted September 10, 2004 11:08 AM
Edited By: osti33 on 10 Sep 2004 12:11
Thanks Entropy. That seems to be a popular guess. I'll check that hose this weekend.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted September 10, 2004 03:19 PM
ENTROPY, thats exactly what its doing but the overflow would fill up to above the the window...I didnt want it to over flow so I removed the anti-freeze that was left when it cooled down and now it only fills up to the middle!!!
Hey osti, do you use RedLine Water Wetter?...I do, I wonder if that is a factor also???
Has anyone changed their thermostat yet?
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted September 10, 2004 05:34 PM
a hint is this: when he lets the radiator cap off, it hisses.
this would seem to me that the radiator is holding a vacuum
perhaps the line has gotten weak in aplace and is closing itslef off when hit by a vacuum?
or the vent for the overflow bottle is not allowing flow back?
you said that you put a new radiator cap on, make sure the little check valve on the cap (should be really small) is not mangled or jammed
since his radiator is at a vacuum, then it follows that SOMETHING is blocking that coolant return path to the radiator. either the cap itself (2 caps with same issue, not likely unless the second cap was used also and had same failure...again the odds are vanishingly small...), or something in one of the lines is clogging or preventing flow..
good luck!
  
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted September 10, 2004 06:20 PM
Edited By: osti33 on 10 Sep 2004 19:22
CR,
No water wetter for me. Just distilled water.
Slug,
I think you are on to something! The cap always hisses when I take it off. Even after the bike sits overnight to cool off. Maybe the hose is colapsing on itself. I looked at the hose tonight. No visable cracks or kinks...It still could be colapsing on itself under vacuum. 
I think I'll just replace that hose and see if that fixes it.
Note: The second radiator cap is brand new. I even bought the tool (can't think of the name right now. Its basically an air pump with a gauge.) to check the cap. Both caps check out fine.
Thanks everyone!
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canadamaxxer
Pro
Posts: 1090
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posted September 10, 2004 07:00 PM
the tool you are speaking of typically only tests the pressure side of the cap. There is no capability to test the vacuum valve. It is a fatal flaw of that type of tester, yet has never been replaced by a model that tests both vacuum and pressure......hmmm maybe I will start production tomorrow 
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pdb1964
Zone Head
Posts: 536
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posted September 11, 2004 01:48 AM
I would agree with Slug. As temperature increases, air/coolant expands and fills the overflow bottle ( the air escapes to the atmosphere ). As the engine cools, it all contracts and sucks what it needs back into the radiator. Doing this a few times will remove air from the coolant system, as Entropy mentioned. So ya, something is preventing fluid from returning to the rad. I can't see a hose colapsing on itself though. I mean those hoses are pretty thick in the walls, right? I'm thinking that there is something acting like a "check valve" that is letting fluid/air out but not back in. Now that the problem has been stated/defined, the hard part is offering a solution. I don't know, check for dirt in the radiator cap neck area, or in the overflow bottle vent hose. You know, it's kinda like having snot in your nose and you can breath out through your nose, but not in. LOL
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 11, 2004 02:41 AM
quote:
Has anyone changed their thermostat yet?
yep, i've changed it. FUN! 
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted September 11, 2004 09:06 PM
I found out my problem...
The strap release buckle has been hitting against the radiator when I make right turns and cruched the 1st and 2nd. row that flows through and now its leaking, causing the antifreeze to stay in the overflow...
I need a new radiator now...Sonamabitch,
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted September 12, 2004 12:11 PM
a good radiator shop should be able to fix that.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 13, 2004 02:08 PM
i have the same problem but i had assumed it was cause the rad filler neck was tweaked when i crashed. now i'm not so sure. thx for the suggestions from all.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted September 17, 2004 10:09 AM
Fixed it.
Got it fixed.
I had a partial blockage in the hose from the radiator to the over flow tank. Under pressure coolant could over come the partial blockage. Under a vacuum it couldn't suck enough to get coolant back to the radiator.
Running good again. All is right with the world.
Thanks to everyone that helped me out.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted September 17, 2004 12:23 PM
sweeet deal
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