VincentHill
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posted August 16, 2004 08:02 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 16 Aug 2004 21:06
SuperCharged ZX12 Next year?
I guess this is Bike related enough. After the end of the season I "WAS" thinking about putting a "Turbo" on my bike. I am now thinking about a SuperCharger now. ABout half the money and some fewer problems.
http://www.tts-performance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=502&products_id=4220
The same unit mounted on a 12
SO who has heard about this? Who knows about this? Swft?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted August 16, 2004 08:07 PM
thats a very interesting concept.
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VincentHill
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posted August 16, 2004 08:11 PM
Here is the company that makes the SuperCharger
http://www.rotrex.eu.com/
Sort of like having a belt driven Turbo that needs no plumming, produces a lot less heat, Cost about half the money and makes good power! I have not spent all of my time watching the "political" scene or Michael Moore Movies 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted August 16, 2004 08:30 PM
If it were that good vinny...everyone would have one 
Im waitin on the "but..."
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wannabe
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posted August 16, 2004 08:45 PM
Edited By: wannabe on 17 Aug 2004 11:33
...
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koz
Expert Class
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posted August 17, 2004 03:19 AM
Mr. Hill,
I'm interested in the SC. Do you know if there is a complete kit for the 12, what does it consist of, and how much? I am looking for a low/street setup somewhere about 250rwhp.
Koz
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ricksgsxr
Zone Head
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posted August 17, 2004 04:02 AM
Edited By: ricksgsxr on 17 Aug 2004 05:13
I wanted one for my 1k and have e-mailed them several times and replied on the Psychobusa board where TTS post results on the busa and 1k and no reply back  Been about six months now and 10 e-mails. It does sound good. Power right from the get go and with liitle or no lag. The Busa and 1k kit the pulleys are behind the fairing and no cutting is needed. I can't find the post but someone here in the states was going to distribute. I thought it was MSP but not sure. There is a recent post where the busa ran mid 8's but no description of what had been done and boost ran.
I had an oppurtunity to ride a Velocity Stage 2 turbo busa on low boost couple times.. I'm hooked and craving boost now. Turbo or supercharged I don't care gotta have it
Rick
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VincentHill
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posted August 17, 2004 05:02 AM
quote:
If it were that good vinny...everyone would have one
Im waitin on the "but..."
How would everyone have one when the "First" one just got finished a few weeks ago? TTS is Not a new Company, but new to the SuperCharging and from looking at their site, they seem to be more interested in the Busa than the 12. Even my long time friend Hindle made the step tube for the Busa 1 year before he made on for the 12 and that was "After" the 12 was already out! Last, they are in the UK and British sense of urgency is a "LOT" different than an American. Before I am accused of anything, I have no relationship with these people, but I am going to try and change that and see about getting one of these things for an over the winter project if possible.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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jonwright
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posted August 17, 2004 07:19 AM
Edited By: jonwright on 17 Aug 2004 08:22
Since the frame (aka airbox) needs to be pressurized I'd guess that is a pretty involved install.
I saw a review of someone else (I forgot the company) that wouldn't let customers install their turbo kit on the 12 because of the airbox.
I would guess that would hold for the supercharger as well......
Oh, and Vinnie: What's the difference between a turbo and a "Turbo"?
Is it a 'so-called' or 'alleged' turbo?
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VincentHill
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posted August 17, 2004 07:51 AM
turbo vs "Turbo"? I do not know the context, but these are both Centrifugal Blowers, one uses exhaust Gas and the other uses a Pulley!
Yes, the same problems apply in sealing the Air Box!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
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posted August 17, 2004 09:36 AM
I didnt mean the system..I meant the rotrax supercharger....I dont believe this is a new concept.
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VincentHill
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posted August 17, 2004 10:27 AM
quote:
I didnt mean the system..I meant the rotrax supercharger....I dont believe this is a new concept.
Of course not, but the application is! I saw one of there in a Porsche also. Nothing in engineering moves fast unless a war is involved! I am going to take a serious look at this ad buy a Tig Welder and do up my frame and have the Welder when finished!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted August 17, 2004 10:38 AM
Thats all I was sayin...its not terribly new technology...and certainly isnt widely used. If it was that good..and that cheap....everyone would have one
I certainly hope it works out great....it would be an awesome mod for all sportbikes!
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jonwright
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posted August 17, 2004 01:31 PM
Well, several production cars have superchargers on them - Mercedes SLK for one. I think Pontiac had one as well.
Ah. Googled it.
Here it is:
quote:
Since the compressor is driven directly by the engine crankshaft, it has the advantage of instant response (no lag). But the charger itself is rather heavy and energy inefficient, thus cannot produce as much power as turbocharger. Especially at high rev, it generates a lot of friction thus energy loss and prevent the engine from revving high.
A typical supercharger transforms the engine very much - very torquey at low and mid range rpm, but red line and peak power appear much earlier. That means the engine becomes lazy to rev (and to thrill you), but at any time you have a lot of torque to access, without needing to change gears frequently. For these reasons, supercharging is quite well suited to nowadays heavy sedans, espeically those mated with automatic transmission. On the other hand, sports cars rarely use it.
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_3.htm
Damn - Google is great. Long live Google. May Google love all of you.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted August 17, 2004 02:20 PM
They dont have rotrax superchargers on them.
Superchargers have been around as long as turbos...however this one claims to be "different"
A regular roots style or centrifugal supercharger would likely rob just as much HP as it made.
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VincentHill
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posted August 17, 2004 02:22 PM
The Rotrex is a little different as far as a Supercharger is concerned. It is lighter than a Turbo and more efficient! FIrst about the company and since they only started producing them in 2003, that would be one reason why not much is known or "Everyone does not have one"!
ROTREX was formed in 1990 and became a member of the A.P Moller Group in 2000. The A.P. Moller group is the largest Danish group of companies.
Up till 1997 the company developed the ROTREX supercharger and sold it as prototypes for Original Equipment development in limited numbers to gain experience on functionality, reliability and to ease the product improvement process.
Since 1997, ROTREX has participated in the development of OEM supercharger applications and grown its aftermarket supercharger business organically.
In year 2003, a new structure is taking place for the aftermarket distribution of superchargers, whereby ROTREX superchargers are made available through the worlds leading performance companies.
Efficiency: Efficiency is higher: - as there is no heat build up within the supercharger the input air temperature is significantly reduced over a turbocharger, reducing detonation and increasing power output and efficiency. A typical turbocharger has an efficiency of 65% a TTS/ROTREX is 72%.
Weight: I am still looking but the fact that is has an Aluminum Housing and is about 6 to 7 inches wide (Depending on the unit) and is between 5 to 6 inches in diameter, I think it would weigh less than the Turbo. Compared the the Eaton Supercharger in the Mini Cooper "S", the Rotrex made 80 more HP with the same engine used. So this is a "Little" different Supercharger than the Roots or Paxton of old!
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jonwright
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posted August 18, 2004 10:54 AM
Edited By: jonwright on 18 Aug 2004 11:54
Hmmmmm......interesting.
You know, BMW engineers sniff at the thought of using forced induction in their "M" cars - they think it's the easy way out and is lazy engineering.
Natuarlly that doesn't apply in F1 - but we'll see how long that holds out for them.
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oldkawboy
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posted August 19, 2004 06:41 AM
Active Autowerke (AA) out of Miami uses a Rotrex SP30-94 centrifugal supercharger to "boost" a BMW 330 performance right there with a M3.
I traded in my M Roadster for a C5 and am wishing I'd had AA install their unit and kept the BMW.
Dan
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jonwright
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posted August 19, 2004 07:17 AM
Now put that supercharger on the new 10 cylindar M5! Holy bejeezus!
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swft
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posted August 19, 2004 07:24 AM
Hey VH -
Never heard of them, but that thing looks sweet!
If I was choosing between a turbo and that, I'd go with that.
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VincentHill
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posted August 19, 2004 08:13 AM
quote:
Hey VH -
Never heard of them, but that thing looks sweet!
If I was choosing between a turbo and that, I'd go with that.
I am still waiting to hear how much it weighs? Also I have heard from them and they state that just like I thought about the Exchange rate that the complete Kit would cost about $4,000. This would get us up to about 330 to 350 HP. They stated that spraying NOS would get us over 400 HP and keep things cool but they are working in mounting the larger unit. The problem is stress on the end of the crank and packaging. He stated that if they could work it out to have longevity, that the unit could make about 500 HP. I told him to let me know when they had "Worked" it out.
O am trying to imagine "Where" someone would mount an Intercooler on a 12 without having plumming all over the place? My first thought is where the Headlight now resides. Tubing up to it on the right side and the outlet into the frame on the left side. I have always been different, so this will not be new to me.
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RAC4IT
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Bergie
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posted August 19, 2004 11:11 AM
For me, I don't understand the fascination with being different. Go with what is proven to work with the least amount of effort and cost. With that in mind, maybe switch to the 'Busa platform and go Velocity
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ricksgsxr
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posted August 19, 2004 12:03 PM
quote:
For me, I don't understand the fascination with being different. Go with what is proven to work with the least amount of effort and cost. With that in mind, maybe switch to the 'Busa platform and go Velocity
Yes you do! or you would not be riding the bike you are now Turbobikes and other platforms besides a Busa would not exist if someone did not want to be different.
Yes, a proven system is always the "safest way" to go. but one single choice is not good. Someone has to push the envenlope and it could make pricing for both systems less expensive in the long run for the consumer.
Turbos are getting to be so popular and some of the Gee Whiz is wearing thin. Superchagers and the powerband (what is reported) also sound appealling to me. I like taking risks-especially when all goes well.
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swft
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posted August 19, 2004 12:37 PM
With regards to intercooler, I think you could just park it in front of the radiator. This isn't going to be a bike you'll be riding in downtown city traffic, after all... Put the same size intercooler in there as the radiator, and you should be good to go. Or maybe move the radiator to the tail of the bike. Always possibilities.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted August 19, 2004 12:44 PM
not a whole lotta room for an IC with enough size to matter.
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