VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 16, 2004 04:21 PM
Went to Walter Reed Army Medical Center Tonight
Huge place full of young people because of decisions made by others. I am not a Happy camper tonight because I just saw 2 fine young men in their 20's and one in his 30's (I guess) that were in a HumVee accident. The Irony here is the the vehicle was blown over into a river and it took between 5 to 10 minutes to get them out because the "Armor Plated glass could not be broken and the doors had to be taken off to get them out. They looked like they were between 6'2" and 6'4" and in excellent shape at about 220 pounds! The Beds they were in did not look big enough for them and they were heavly sedated to control swelling. These were the People in "Charles Franks" company "Arkawchan" to the Board members. What has got me so pissed is the statement by someone that never went to war and had questionable service of what he did and is risking nothing personal stating "Bring It On". One of them had their wife, Brother and dad their, You could see that his wife had cried so much that her eyes were just about cried out. The other guy, Charles real friend opened his eyes when I yelled Charles Frank's name and then closed them again. His wife was there also but I did not get to see her but left a card for her to knw that Charles was there in Spirit and had called from Iraq to make sure they knew he was keeping up with their progress. I plan to go back Wednesday to see how they are improving!
I am in a bad mood right now and will say this again, the whole country of Iraq and everyone in it is not worth 1 drop of our blood! Oil or Not!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
|
slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
|
posted August 16, 2004 04:45 PM
and we were wasting our blood every year being over there 'babysitting' that SOB, with NOTHING to show for our efforts except ruined lives and ruined equipment.
i feel for them, but having been over there, i know what those people risked every day just 'hanging out' waiting for hussein to lob another scud, or decide to invade again.
but we all know that had this s**t been done right in '98 we wouldn't be there now. (in this kind of mess anyway)
or in '91 for that matter.
Hope for the best for your friends, but be sure to ask THEM what they think their sacrifice was worth before denouncing their efforts as wasted. Perhaps THEY felt that those people, and our people at risk every day WAS worth the effort to try to fix.
Nick Berg's dad screams bloody damned murder about how horrible of a cause we had going htere, but HIS SON who DID pay the ultimate price, did so WILLINGLY and BELIEVED in what he was doing. Don't underestimate or cheapen the actions of others because you don't approve of the situation yourself. Make sure that THEY also feel they were wasting their time before putting that sentiment to them after the fact. let THEM make the call on whether they were wasting their time and their efforts. let THEM decide what their own blood is or is not worth.
   
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 16, 2004 05:07 PM
Just a "little" different, not "Wasted" because there are doing what they are ordered to do to save the few that are worth it. It is me that feels that when you are dealing with some people that "Want' to die" then I feel that we should let them! and not take people that do not want to die
AT least in 91, "Everyone" was in on the deal, not 10 people here, 50 there and 100 over there. I think I would have felt better if this had happened in Afganistan where we really do need to clean house at this price!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted August 16, 2004 06:24 PM
I feel your pain VH,but I have to disagree with you on whether its worth it or not.To me,I'ld rather have the fight in their back yard then mine.Take the 9/11 planes for instance,the one plane where the people fought back crashed in a field where the other 3 resulted in the terrorist bringing it to us.Sure they all died,but when it was stood up to,no other Americans died.Islamic extremist,won't be pacified with detente,and in fact take it as a weakness.War is suppose to be brutal and vicious,otherwise the nations would not think twice about one.Yes it sucks but the alternative may to live like Israeli and worry about human waste.Is the oil worth it,to me you bet it is!So is not having extremist here with dirty bombs or chemicals
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted August 16, 2004 06:33 PM
I'm spoiled and like to ride my bike without gas rations or fear of being shot,blown up or censored.I did my time,luckily I came out intact.They didn't and it hurts the soul,but I have a God that will look out for them as well as us for His divine goal.V you show a lot of heart so pray for them and say thank you for your sacrifice.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted August 16, 2004 06:46 PM
VH - I respect your opinion, but it seems like you are turning all your posts into a politcal forum. Why not talk about motorcycles?
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 16, 2004 07:52 PM
Because it "IS" one of our fellow ZX12R riders and fourm members that is in the group that was hit! Like I also said, if this was in Afganistain, then I would more agree with Aliveagain. The problem is, here is a guy that a year ago I was arguing about the price of the sub frame and being a vegetarian eating Beef Jerky, who I am now saying a prayer for to come home alive and able to ride again. It could be any one of you young people that are in the Reserves or National Guard that is on this board right now that we may be talking about next! It is only political "IF" you think it is, to me, it is about being in harms way for reasons I am not that sure about. It is just not easy to be in a place where it takes 10 minutes after you get off the elevator to get to where some one is and see all of those fine young men that may never be the same again and will be dealing with this for another 50 to 60 years later. It was more than I was prepared to deal with and I "Needed" to lower my stress level where I have some friends and some know what I am dealing with!
I Like I knew better than to see the guy get his head cut off and some people here looked ans had to talk about it. I would feel the same way if Clinton was in the whitehouse also. BTW, I hope to have better news either Wednesday or Friday!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
|
posted August 17, 2004 01:37 AM
Vince I understand how you are feeling....and i appreciate you taking the time to spend with these young men, you are a great man to do such a thing.....Pleae tell these men that from one soldier to another, I am keeping them and their buddies that are still there in my thoughts and in my prayers. And please tell Charles that I am thining about him , and keeping him in thoughts and prayers everyday, until the day in which he comes home......
and I ask everyone here, whether you support the war or not,, no matter how you feel about the events taking place over there...please pray for the safe return of everyone over there........they need it........
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted August 17, 2004 02:19 AM
VH, I dont think you can see the big picture of the war on terrorisim.
It isnt about George Bush, or John Kerry. You cant seem to seperate politics from the task of rooting out these radicals from the countried they live in or travel to. This war on radical islamic terrorists is just beginning.
Most of the people causing the problems in Iraq arnt from Iraq they came in to fight agenst non-islamic people trying to set up a stable democratic government in a middle eastern country to try stablize the entire region for years to come.
Look at the bigger picture and try to think years ahead. These arnt the first troops of ours to be injured or killed, we should be thinking about all vets from WWI, WWII etc. They sacraficed just as much as our current guys, and for the same reasons. Some one wanted to destroy our way of life. Sad, but i doubt this will be the last time we will need to stand up for the security of the USA.
War sucks but for the longterm survival of this country we all live in we have to defend it from time to time. We need to be on the offensive and keep the battles on thier turf. I doubt you would want your neighborhood under attack again. Its not an easy decision to send troops into battle, but its the right decision to keep the battles off of our turf. Iraq is like a magnet right now for radicals. Kinda like an ant trap. Better there than here at home.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted August 17, 2004 03:07 AM
I doubt that any argument is going to change VH's mind on how evil GB or any republican in general is. That dog don't hunt no more...
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 17, 2004 04:52 AM
Amen HDL, You have been there and done that!
Y2K, You can make good sense out of Stupidity.
SWFT, It is "NOT" being Republican that I have "ANY" problem with and I do not know "Exactly" who the Idiot was that I want to Blame but I can tell you "What" I am so pissed about. very quickly
#1, Going in there with out twice as many people as we needed
#2, Not building the "Regular" Military troop strength by shifting the Reserves and National Guard to the other places in the world where are Regular's are and put the people in Battle that are paid to be there
#3 Having the correct equipment to do the Job "Before" the fact rather than After the fact.
That is where the mistakes were made and the other Bush Republican did not make "ANY" of those mistakes and did a lot better Job until he stopped short. (Of course he had some real war experience). Yes I have a Problem with Junior and his crew on "HOW" they handled things a lot more than being there. To me, this is Not Political, but personal because the Republicans did not make the decisions, it was some of the people in the party I have a problem with. I do not like Al Sharpton but you would not say that I hate Democrats would you? The same for Dianne Feinstein. Can you now see the difference in how I look at things?
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
|
posted August 17, 2004 06:36 AM
Smart man that VH to know enough to lower his stress level.Nothing worse than taking it out on the family or anyone else for that matter because of life on lifes terms.Not a good way to start on a ride either.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 17, 2004 06:51 AM
I am a little better now because I just got word that they are fairly sure that neither suffered any permanent Brain damage. Also Burns who is Charles real friend has come around and is trying to sit up and things. So I do feel better today!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
|
posted August 17, 2004 08:41 AM
Screw the politics folks, Chop off all their damm heads.
What comes around goes around is my motto.
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted August 17, 2004 10:08 AM
VH, I agree that as we look back in the years to come there will be things that could have been handled differently.
But the same can be said of WWII or any conflict in history. Hind sight is 20/20. But in reality when decisions have to be made on how to handle a situation you look at all the information presented to you at THAT time and make a decision.
I also agree with Slug, saddam should have been delt with when he failed to live up to the cease fire agreements of 91. This would have happened about 94. But the UN doesnt back up any of its resolutions with actions which makes the resolutions and the UN mute. Saddam knew this, as does the rest of the world. So the UN is now reduced to a humanitairian relief service for floods and other natural disasters.
In the 90's the military was cut to the bone to balance the budget (especially the CIA) because "we no longer had an advarsairy".
Were paying the price for that now. Even the laws were changed to tie the hands of the CIA so they couldnt operate.
Well guess what. We shure as hell did have an advarsairy. But all we did was throw a few rocks (cruise missles) at the hornets nest (afghanistan)and piss them off. They swarmed and stung our asses a few more times while we did nothing.
But didnt we sure have a "politically correct" policy in place during those years. France never even got mad at us once during those years. Attack after attack we did nothing and France was our buddy, afterall, the Cole happened far from our shores and our embassies that were attacked were in some other country, besides, the stockmarket was doing great, why upset that.
thats a great legacy to have.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
|
posted August 17, 2004 10:09 AM
Hey fellas....been away a while!!
Iraq is not a fun place to be, I will say that. 25% of the guys I brought over aren't here with me any more. No deaths (yet), but it sure isn't fun to put a guy on a bird all wrapped up and bloody either....I've seen and done a thousand thing I thought I would never get to do...and I hope I never have to again!!
I won't get political since I have a job to do and I plan on finishing it to my best ability.
Pray for us!!
Thanks Bincent!!
____________
RED NINJAS RULE!!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 17, 2004 10:24 AM
"U DA MAN" Charles You make me proud to be an American! The rest is Gravy. As you can see, I did what I had to do (I promised) but seeing what i saw (EVERYTHING ELSE) was more than I have planned for and I am still recovering! Prayers work and your Buds getting better prove that! No one by themselves can be USD in a Sealed and locked HumVee under water for 5 to 10 minutes and be in the shape those guys are "WITHOUT Prayer"!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 17, 2004 11:05 AM
Y2K, again I must agree with everything you just said, but you have left something out?
When Great people have made these Hard decisions, there decisions are "Still" Considered good even with 20/20 Hind Site. Custer was considered to be a Good General until one day he made a mistake. Eisenhower is "Still" considered to be a Great General 60 years after his decisions were made. Except for the decision not to go into Bagdad, Bush Sr's decisions and how he conducted the 1st Gulf War is still considered to be an excellent Decision. Bush Jr's decision to go to Afganstain is still considered to be a good decision even by me. So keeping it into this context can you now better understand my thinking?
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
|
posted August 17, 2004 03:03 PM
God Bless you charles, adn get home safely with the rest of your troopers.....
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted August 17, 2004 04:05 PM
VH - I gave it some thought today. Wars are not about tanks, or guns, or jeeps. Wars are about people. You can have all the guns in the world, and the best high tech bombs, but you can't win the war without the will of the people. So, can we win this war? Yes, if the people of Iraq will it to be so. Can we lose this war? Yes, if we lack the will to pursue terrorism no matter where it lies. Pride, Vigilance, Honor...Words to live by...
|
slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
|
posted August 17, 2004 04:33 PM
an interesting commentary by Ben Stein
http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Morton/Archive/2003/031220b.html
As for those serving now, or who have done so, Thankyou.
Those over in the sand now, watch your backs, watch your buddy's backs. God be with you. (if you believe such)
and maybe we can level the mosque or two that the terrorists are hiding in.
and when is the media going to stop making heroes & martyrs out of these asshole terrorists who hide behind women and children?
and maybe pigs will fly too.. *sigh* i hate politically correct and politics and the BS that continues to prevent us from FIXING the problem and moving on with life. kill the bastards that shoot at us, and stop tying our people's hands behind their backs preventing them from DEALING with these problems, regardles sof how 'it might offend the bloody damned terrorists'
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted August 17, 2004 05:56 PM
I want to know why the "non-radical" muslem clerics and leaders arnt speaking up more to condem the "tiny minority of radicals" in the muslem countries around the world. I think it would be a big help to discourage more "radicals" from joing these groups. It reminds me of gangs in the cities. Can you ever really get rid of them?
As far as our troops... I'm damn glad we have the best equipment and protection for them. Its gotta help save lives and give them an edge.
I know a few people over there and i've heard some situatonal stories that make you proud to be doing good for the iraqi people.
The Iraqi people are giving us lots of info to help find and eliminate these groups of radicals that came in from other countries.
VH, I'm not sure how this will pan out for Bush, looking back 10 years from now. But I can tell you The Iraqi people will be better off. That is as long as they dont let radical islamists take over thier new government.
Look at Iran. debka.com
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 18, 2004 04:53 AM
quote:
VH - I gave it some thought today. Wars are not about tanks, or guns, or jeeps. Wars are about people. You can have all the guns in the world, and the best high tech bombs, but you can't win the war without the will of the people. So, can we win this war? Yes, if the people of Iraq will it to be so. Can we lose this war? Yes, if we lack the will to pursue terrorism no matter where it lies. Pride, Vigilance, Honor...Words to live by...
GO TO THE HEAD OF THE CLASS! I have never seen it better put! You just said it all!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 18, 2004 04:56 AM
Finally I think we are all on the same page! SWFT just went to the front of the class where you have taken up residence! I got a little picture for us to see! Our Boy Chan at work!
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
|
posted August 18, 2004 11:15 AM
For Kawachan benefit Here is what the place looks like:
I will be checking on your Guys tonight and I will be better prepared with what I see "Before" I finally get to their rooms.
Understand that I park in the underground parking which is where the 1st floor starts. When you walk into this building, it is about 50 to 75 yards to the central elevator in the lobby. When you get off on the 4th floor you can only walk 1 way. The hall is so long that it almost looks like it is colesd at the end. I would say that it is about 1/16 of a mile down this hall. At the end of this hall, you can walk either way about 1/16 mile to the end where you turn tight again and see a Hall about 1/8 mile long. About 1/2 way down this hall, you make a left and go about 100 yards to this unit where you walk in and see the receptionist. About 25 feet away you can see their room. Hatch is on the left and Burns is on the right. Hatch seems to be about 5 years older than Burns and is balding in his military haircut. Burns has the normal GI Cut with the shaved side walls. The both have the respirators in them (2 blue tubes attached to a "Y" Fitting and a clear tube down their throats and taped to their mouths) Both have several IV's in 1 arm and wires coming from under the covers going to the monitors. As opposed to people that are really not here (I can still remember my favorite Aunt being blown up and down by the machines and the movement it caused) theirs is different because it looks like the machines are "Aiding" their breathing as opposed to doing it all for them. Hatch was always moving around and they were always putting his arm or leg back in bed but Burns seemed to be resting very comfortably.
No question these guys are from the west because Hatch's Brother and Dad had on Western Gear (The belt and Buckle with a western type shirt and the Dad even had a Cowboy hat and Boots. Hatch's Brother looked like he had a mouth full of Chew and was looking for a Place to spit or have to swallow.
SO I will compare this to what I see tonight and let you know the difference. OK
____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC