hott-rodd
Novice Class
Posts: 96
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posted January 25, 2002 07:49 AM
Tips tobuilding a 1361
Kcadby, Doug, Intra, Others in the know.
How long does it take you to built a 1361, with the motor on the bench. Break it down if you can.
1. Tear down
2. clean and inspect old and new parts
3. head work (do you recommend it on the 12)
4. pre assembly mods (press cam sprokets, debur, etc)
5. assembly.
6. degree cams
7. whatever i missed with details.
I THINK someone said kawasaki gave dealers 12 hrs.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but except for the cam sprokets
this should be equal to a standard R/R, IF you have the
right bearing the first time.
Do you get bearing with the 1361 kit?
If not what is they cost?
I want to do some type mod. The amount of time you guys spend on a rebuild make me think i'm missing something.
I would like to drop the motor and build it the same weekend , 2 days 10-12hrs each. This will not be a rush
job just no BS'ing. What do you think?
  
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 25, 2002 08:09 AM
hott,
I think that, not counting headwork, that you could easily do that job in a weekend. One day to remove and prep, one day to assemble and re-install. You would re-use your current bearings. If you want to re-size them, that would involve pre-purchasing them to have them on site. I also assume that you have COMPLETE tools, including micrometers and dial indicators. Get a manual and do it BY THE BOOK.
Regarding head work we recommend that only minor clean-up and matching be done to the ports and a 3 angle (or, with blends, 5) be done by someone WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
(Better to not do it than do it poorly).
Doug
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 25, 2002 03:01 PM
It would take too long to break it all down but...it takes longer to do the job when your "getting to know the motor"
I spent HOURS on this latest motor job checking things like...cam-degree, valve lash, leak down, valve to piston clearance (removed outer valve springs with the head on the motor), ECT, ECT...BEFORE I even took the head off!
THEN??? I checked, deck height, dome-CC and combustion chamber-CC...then I removed the base gasket and checked deck height and CCed AGAIN...
There is a BIG difference between "R&R" and..."blue printing/balancing" a motor...
I weigh and equalize (within 10THs of grams) the engine components...I like nothing better than "feeling a motor run smoother than it was when stock" when I'm done with it...
I don't just "wash parts" either...I CLEAN them until they ARE CLEAN...I spent over an hour just cleaning the oil galleys in ZX9R's crank!!! As long as "stuff" kept coming out of the oil holes...I kept probing/flushing them out...then...I did it some more!
You can NOT "beat the flat-rate" when you do things like this but...it's the ONLY WAY I know how to do the work AND feel good (no...GREAT) about how I did it...
Hard to make money this way but...I get a LOT of satisfaction knowing I do everything the best that I can...with what I've got to work with...(working IN my home at the moment)...
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 25, 2002 03:25 PM
 Edited By: krexken on 25 Jan 2002 15:32
It's taken me about 3 months and I don't even have the cams in yet. I reused all of my old bearings. I've done much what Kevin has done at it is time consuming. If ya want to do it quickly, make sure you have every gasket you need and a set of rod bolts. The oil pan gasket is the only one I've had to replace. Been waiting on valve shims for the new cam for a week. Next I'll be waiting on nice weather. I've been in no hurry, evidently.
Kev- what kinda comp. ratio number you come up with with the base gasket removed?
Oh yeah, I think I'm gonna need a manual can chain tensioner. Don't like how hard I have to mash the stocker in.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 25, 2002 03:47 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 25 Jan 2002 15:54
VERY close to 13:1...including carbon on the pistons and head...LOL
The stock head gasket (as you have seen) doesn't have round holes for the bores so...my number is a bit high...
Y2K came up with 12.8 (no carbon?  ) so...I'm "in the ball park"...
I was wondering about the cam chain length with the spacer plate...and already planned on using the billet tensioner... 
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hott-rodd
Novice Class
Posts: 96
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posted January 25, 2002 06:27 PM
Thanks Guys,
This is my first KAW. (let me ask a few stupid questions)
How can Kawi get away with this when others have to use case/crank and crank/rod codes to get the right size?
Are there extra risk if you reuse the old bearings with a new crank? If not, is this becaue they don't seal and SHOULD not wear?
What do i need to mic? I plan to plastigage the crank.
I'm going to trust muzzy on the piston to side clearance.
ring gap is not problem. "IF" I touch the head, Every valve and spring goes back in the same hole, and i'm not touching the valve or spring seats, to minimize the chance of needing any shims. (i will recheck)
I will have a local shop do the sprockets and degree cams.
I do like the idea about balance the piston/rod combination.
I'll have to put that on my list.
Any other Tips?
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 25, 2002 08:29 PM
My new crankshaft was exactly the same size as the old one. Okay, too journals were 2 ten thousandths smaller. That's why I feel pretty safe reusing the old bearings. The codes are stamped on the block, rods, and crank to make it simpler. Plastigauging ought to get you by on the crank. I'd measure the pistons and bores.
Muzzys instructions say .012 ring end gap. This is a little larger than the small end of the book spec for the top ring. I'm sure it's probably perfect for the bigger bore, higher horse motor. The book says a minimum of .016 for the second ring though. A tight gap can cause serious problems. I set them at .016.
To me, there's entirely too much money at stake to trust anybody. Everyone can make mistakes, even the best machinist. Trust no one!
Make sure the person who changes out the sprockets reads the intructions before removing the stock gears. If they aren't pressed on semi-accurately, you could bend a valve rotating the engine if you're not careful. Lucky for me, I used check springs with only 2 valves in the head to get the cam timing close. I didn't read the instructions. I'm kinda slow.
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