ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 25, 2002 06:54 AM
PC3 Map logic!
After doing some considerable usage and thinking, I have some "logical" issues that i would like to throw out for consideration......
1) Does dyno improvements = Track time MPH improvements?
2) Since...(We "ONLY RACE" or "ROLL-ON" with "WIDE OPEN THROTTLE".....why is the last column the least modified, but the lesser throttle positions need SOOO MUCHHH more gas just to "CRUISE" around?!?!??!!
3) Has the maps we have been using been created doing "complete dyno" work in each of the throttle positions?! IF NOT,,,,,,,,then Pandora's box is open!!!
4) What is the EXACT limit responsive ability of the ECU to control if the ECU is measuring and adjusting to the airflow when the bike is working in the real world?!
5) If Ricky did a 9.5et and Robert did a 9.4's et with no pc3 at all and on stock wheel bases then hmmmmmm.....
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
  
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Zx23rr
Expert Class
Mahogany Bomber Pilot
Posts: 242
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posted January 25, 2002 07:24 AM
Variables
There are alot of variables that have to be considered. Transition fueling being the most important of them all. A/F ratio's and engine requirements and conditions are forever changing and at best you can get is a compremise.
Power is said to be best as 13.2-13.5. Reality may be that a 12.2-12.9 might be the ticket. And again it may only apply at a certain rpm range. Wide open throttle fueling is pretty easy to set-up as you just keep adding fuel till either most power is produced or best et/mph. That said, one has to take gear and weather conditions also.
It's the part throttle stuff that's the real bitch.
So it is as stated earlier, a compremise at best of all the variable that leads to the best overall performance. Fuel efficiently is usually the victim. ie- more fuel is required to "cover" all the little holes that present while wicking up the throttle.
It is suggested that 12.5-12.9 is a good A/F at WOT from idle rpm to peak torque then start leaning out to 13.0-13.5 or more to redline. Problem is thats where you will damage the engine if you miscalculated.
"Fueling is as much a Science as it is an Art"
Later............................../
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted January 25, 2002 07:36 AM
PC3/R
The PC3 is a (air/fuel ratio) tuning tool. To answer your questions, most of the time, yes, you should see SOME better times/mph. You can pick up a couple hp in the rpm range, and maybe a little peak. But don't expect to see dramatic differences in drag racing (WOT). The biggest/best effect the PC3/R produces, is drivability on the street. You can clean up flat spots and on/off throttle response in different rpm ranges. It's worth the money, I picked up aprox. 2hp and made the throttle response smoother.
Koz
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 25, 2002 03:28 PM
ROBERT (don't know about Rickey) was changing TPS settings and-or- putting resisters in line with the water-temp sender to "tune" the jetting...
I have ALWAYS run my best #s right after a trip to the dyno to re-map the WFO(100%) throttle cells...nuff said??? 
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ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 26, 2002 09:52 PM
I mentioned earlier several questions. But, the benefits of adjusting the 100% throttle column can be easily measured on the dyno and the track. (ie: Kevin,,,grin back at you!) Also, the 0% throttle column can easily be tested where back firing is concerned and on off throttle. (ie: Cliff,,,grin back at you!)
But, the mid-range producing more horsepower, that is recorded on the dyno the way 99.999% of the posted dynoes are created is not accurate. What we see is the power produced in the "WIDE OPEN" position as the rpms increase. Also the A/F ration is confined to that column on those same dyno pulls. That is very different from the A/F ratios occuring in the other columns if the throttle was HELD STRICTLY at a certain percentage of open...ie: 20%,30%,40% etc Having said that, even then it is only the last 8 rpm rows that count to show a difference in hp in the last column. But I haven't seen any hard FACTS reporting about the finds in this "limited" area. The "seat of the pants" really says nothing...too subjective for counting as facts. Just like the "Monster Snorkle".....Kevins test had other variables that are "proven" hp affectors that were included in the test, so the benefits were not exclusive of the snorkle. (Wasn't Kevin's fastest times without the snorkle?!) Yet, strangely no one has simply "stepped up" to prove it unlike the ignition advancer and other mods...hmmmmmm (However, i do believe the testing was done but not reported!)
Secondly do we really need 15-25 more points of gas in the mid range for just cruising?!?!?! That many points would kill the A/F ratio! Especially if we use the 100% column as a guide to the correct A/F ratios values.
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 27, 2002 01:04 AM
The load control dynos with GOOD operators can map all the throttle settings...
The auto mapping software that is out now makes it WAY easier/faster to do it...
Jeff at HPC (our dyno guy) is upgrading to the load control and Tuning Link software in the next month or two...I can't wait to see what his results are after the upgrades...
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