ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted January 21, 2002 05:55 PM
Oil Pressure Mod!
Would someone please explain the oil pressure mod to increase the oil pressure!
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ra12r
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posted January 22, 2002 01:46 PM
I know someone must know?!
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redelk
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posted January 22, 2002 02:19 PM
I've honestly never read anything about such a modification
I won't say that I've read ever post on every forum related to the 12R, but I have read a few over the past few years (even before the 12R was introduced). I don't remember anyone posting anything concerning a modification related to the actually increasing or altering the 12R's oil pressure.
Oil getting to the plates of the clutch has been an issue of concern, but the hubs/baskets from Muzzy have addressed that (for those that needed it). I'm could be wrong, but I've never read or heard of a oil pressure modification.
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hott-rodd
Novice Class
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posted January 22, 2002 02:45 PM
That's busa mod from what i've heard.
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krexken
Zone Head
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posted January 22, 2002 03:46 PM
If you put a stiffer spring or shim under the existing spring in your bypass valve, you'll raise the oil pressure. Don't have a clue how much equals how much. You can access it rather easily and it'll unscrew from the block. With a good test gauge and a regulated supply, you may be able to test and set the pressure without it being on the bike.
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12RPilot
Pro
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posted January 23, 2002 12:09 AM
This is an interesting topic. In theory, when is the pressure too much? What are the limiting factors? I have always had to worry about too little oil pressure over the years. Never really considered too much.
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KawRider
Expert Class
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posted January 23, 2002 04:38 AM
Mike from Horsepower- Ping!
quote:
If you put a stiffer spring or shim under the existing spring in your bypass valve, you'll raise the oil pressure.
Ive got this exact mod on my 85 Kawasaki Turbo. Courtesy Mike Chestnut... you there Mike? Can it be done to the 12R?
Thanks!
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Tim
Black ZX-14
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magzx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 252
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posted January 23, 2002 06:15 AM
I have heard of this mod for a 'Busa. They changed the gear on the oil pump to speed it up, which increased oil flow/discharge pressure.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S
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horsepower
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted January 23, 2002 07:45 AM
Tim; Mike here from Horsepower Unlimited. You can add a shim to the pressure relief valve on the 12. I have allready done this to mine. The valve screws into the main oil galley on the bottom of the engine. You have to have the oil pan off to get to it. Just install a small washer about .050 inch thick beneath the factory washer that is under the C clip. This should raise the oil pressure 15 pounds at max pressure. Mike.
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redelk
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posted January 23, 2002 09:28 AM
 Edited By: redelk on 23 Jan 2002 09:40
Okay, is this a
I'm in the process of having a O2 sensor put in my header and I was planning on changing my oil anyway, so I'm kinda "halfway there" already. Will I need to have a new oil pan gasket handy? With over 28K on the odo and never having the pan off, I'm guessing that I probably will not be able to use the original. Though I haven't looked at what all would be involved, is there anything "special" I need to know about doing this mod?
I'm trying to find the "valve" in the parts list (kinda wanna "see" it, before I take everything apart) and can't seem to locate it. Where should I be looking?
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kcadby
Pro
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posted January 23, 2002 01:00 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 1 Feb 2002 00:00
Here's a picture for ya and...no...you shouldn't need a new gasket...they are VERY durable...
Sorry
Pictures are gone...
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 23, 2002 01:17 PM
Interesting Mod..............
I may have to do this. Anyone know what the inside diameter of this shim should be????? I may try to round up one and do this mod while I've got my exhaust off. I don't see where an additional 15psi of oil pressure would hurt anything. It shouldn't take long if all you gotta do is pull the pan off, pop a c clip off, put the shim on, press the relief valve to allow the c clip to fit back in it's groove and put the pan back on. Correct?????
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 23, 2002 03:04 PM
Has anyone actually checked the pressure at 1600 rpm or so?
Thats one area you hope kawi corrected from the zx-11 days.
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Y2KZX12R
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 23, 2002 08:35 PM
?????
With the bike tore down with the pipe off, how long do you think it would take to do this mod?????? I'm gonna be right there at it as soon as my fan comes it. That's when I'm gonna put the YOSH on.
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ra12r
Zone Head
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posted January 23, 2002 09:54 PM
Thanks for the tip, this should elminate any possible oil starvation to the bearings. The manual says that stock pressure is 23 psi from my memory...i am going to check again!!!
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kcadby
Pro
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posted January 24, 2002 03:46 AM
YEEEup...23psi @ 4,000rpm and 194-degF...
I haven't done any tests to see what rpm it takes to reach max pressure but...you people DO KNOW??? that this mod will increase MAX pressure...ONLY...right???
It won't affect the pressure at any RPMs below what it takes to make max pressure...you DO know that right? 
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ra12r
Zone Head
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posted January 24, 2002 05:46 AM
Well that changes the beauty of the mod....but?!?!?! If max pressure is occuring at 4000 rpms (?) then above 4000 it would now be ~38psi~ possibly for 4000-11,500...yes?!?!
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 24, 2002 06:37 AM
Should I??????
quote:
YEEEup...23psi @ 4,000rpm and 194-degF...
I haven't done any tests to see what rpm it takes to reach max pressure but...you people DO KNOW??? that this mod will increase MAX pressure...ONLY...right???
It won't affect the pressure at any RPMs below what it takes to make max pressure...you DO know that right?
Should I do it???? I'm thinking yes, but let's here some "expert" opinions. 
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Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 24, 2002 10:45 AM
??????
Anybody??????
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
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KawRider
Expert Class
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posted January 24, 2002 01:26 PM
Do It
Im doing it! The max pressure is where you want the increase... in the higher RPM range!!! Common sense to me. I just need the garage to warm up a bit first.
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Tim
Black ZX-14
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 24, 2002 04:07 PM
Talked to Mike.....
Yeah I'm gonna do this mod. He and I talked this afternoon, and it just makes good sense to do it. Especially for us knuckleheads that love to flog the piss out of our bikes. It's a pretty straightforward deal, and I'll give more input on this after I've done it.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 24, 2002 04:55 PM
Ding
yes jim
Alex, I'll take "speculating on the assumption that there is somthing wrong with the oil pressure on the zx12r" for 200 dollars please. 
So what is causing the extremely worn bearings in these few zx12r's?
I'm shure you guys all change the oil and check it often.
I'm shure no one uses 68 cent quaker state 10/30.
Wheelies?
Oil too hot?
Low pressure?
Too much pressure?
Hot spots in the engine?
Reving or beating it cold?
Poor oiling design?
Poor quality bearings?
Bearing clearances too loose?
Or too tight?
Are the cranks straight?
Are the rods pinching?
Detonation?
Pump cavitation?
Pickup tube cavitation?
Coolant in the oil?
Minimal breakin?
Reving it cold?
Did I say reving it cold?
No one does that right?
While I have the engine out I guess I should take a peak at the bottom end. I really didnt think It needed a looking at for another 20,000 miles. But...
On my bike I can rule out all but a few things on the list.
Maybe, just maybe there is another reason the zx12r crank got a little fatter over the winter. Maybe the crank needed to be stronger?
Does the 2002 have the same size mains? Rods?
Doug M Do you have any info on the 2002 crank?
Or common failure rates from kawi on the zx12r parts?
How about a new law.
Motorcycle companies have to report component failure rates for us on the internet! I'd vote for that.
But I'm shure if it was real common then kawi would acknowledge somthing.
At least, I think they would.
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Y2KZX12R
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 25, 2002 05:02 AM
Hmmmmm.....
Interesting Jim. From what I gathered from Mike kaw has used this same relief valve on bikes for a long time, and that this mod is tried and true.
As far as the need to increase pressure, we discussed that it could benefit a bike that had loose main bearing clearances, but also a bike a bike that's mains were too tight. What's your take.
I don't see where an 15 psi will hurt anything?????????
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 25, 2002 07:04 AM
As bearing clearances get bigger there is a decrease in oil pressure. This is due to higher flow out of the bearing area and and this causes excess oil on the cylinder walls and its harder for the oil control ring to scrape the cyl walls. Pressure is only possable at all, because of a restriction down stream after the pump. If that restriction is reduced (looser bearings) so is the pressure. If you are too tight then the oil flow past the bearing surface is reduced and bearing/journal cooling by the oil is reduced.
1/2 of the job of oil is for cooling.
Increasing the pressure at which the relief valve opens and bypasses the main oil galley wont help oil pressure before the valve opens.
If you dont increase the restriction (tighter bearings) then the only way to raise the pressure is to increase the volume of the pump. This is why they sell high volume oil pumps for racing engines. Increasing the oil pump volume on the engine would make the pump relief valve bypass sooner if nothing else was changed on the engine. However the pressure at witch the valve opened would be the same if the spring wasnt changed or shimmed.
Ideally in a racing engine you only want enough oil volume to cool the crank/bearings and enough pressure to "float" the crank. Too much of either will cause power loss. And not enough will cause damage.
So the first thing that has to be determined is why the crank is making contact with the bearings.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted January 25, 2002 07:55 AM
If It Ain't Broke, Fix IT Till It Is!
Is there a real problem here? What happens if oil capacity can't supply enough oil for the increased pressure/flow. The biggest problems come from starvation/low capacity.
Koz
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