VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 25, 2004 12:01 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 12 Sep 2004 12:09
Getting ready for Maxton "Again"!
Everyone is safe "Including me!" My bike made no HP and I have problems and will not be going to Maxton for the June meet. #4 Cylinder has 210 pounds of Cranking pressure and #2 has about 80 and #1 & #3 have "ZERO  My thought right now is the valves!) I hope to get the head off Sunday and take a look to see "Why & What"! For some reason, the bike rand worse and worse making about 140 HP. Never sprayed and #1 always a problem. No fault codes stored and at first I thought it may have been an Injector on #1 Right now, I am wore out (2AM Last night). There is good news for me, I finally sold the largest House in My mother's estate and settled with 1 of the 4 on my Mal pratice Suit that caused me to have 7 operations and walk on crutches for "3" Years I was dissapointed that I did not have time to repaint the tail section, so now that is not a problem 
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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jhinderliter
Zone Head
Hacksaw
Posts: 541
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posted June 25, 2004 01:04 PM
did you put any air in your cylinders to see where you are losing compression? sorry to hear about your troubles.. nothing more frustration than that
good luck
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My other ride is big and green too!!
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted June 25, 2004 01:16 PM
Damn, Vinny. Hope you pull it together.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted June 25, 2004 02:11 PM
I have 3 words for of advice for you
leak down test
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted June 25, 2004 02:15 PM
I am sorry to hear about that Vince!! I hope it is a simple problem! I really want to come out and race with you sometime!
Mad Mike
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 25, 2004 02:59 PM
Good Idea from everyone (I have the fitting to put air in the cylinders). Now that I finally have a little "Time" and no more rush! I plan to pull the engine out of the bike and
#1 check the can timing , then pull the cams and send them out for sprockets and then let the lobe centers 105 / 105.
#2, Recheck the compression ratio with the engine on the floor so I can bring the minicus to the bottom of the spark Plug Hole with 1 piston at TDCC and one at BDCC.
#3, Pull the cylinder and put in the .080 Spacer to lower the Cylinder pressure closer to 180 PSI.
#4 Replace the Valves with all stainless Valves and lap them in to see where they sit on the seats and seat width.
This should take care of the engine and finally "Paint" the tail section to the correct color  !!
I am so tired of this and everything I have had to deal with over the last few months, but at least, most of them are now NLAP (No Longer A Problem!). Also with a "Little" money in my pocket now and all of the bills paid, I can look at every Option (Like CF (or at least Fiberglass) Body work in front made by the same person that made the tail section and Paint it Green also!)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted June 25, 2004 04:23 PM
Hey Vince, I say reward yourself with a built motor by Lees Performance for the 3 years of walking on crutches!!!...Put that settlement to good use and do some riding, instead of wrenching!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Hells Dark Lord
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living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted June 25, 2004 04:35 PM
am sorry to hear that Vinnie, waslooking forward to hearing how you did at Maxton.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted June 25, 2004 04:48 PM
I give you two thumbs up for motivation and dedication! Keep at it!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 25, 2004 07:41 PM
Even though the Planning has been since October Last year, the very first move was to order the Pistons at the end of March (26 or 27th?). Then nothing was done in April (No Money) Then because of Randall I was able to "Start" ordering parts the first weeks of May and did not take off the "First" Bolt until Sunday the 16 of May. Remember I could not even put the engine together until the first week of June because of Cometic gaskets being late and then over priced so finally getting a stock head Gasket and base spacer from Falicon.
Lack of Money always cost Poor people "More" (Best example is they drive older cars that get worse mileage to begin with and then out of tune which drinks more so they cannot afford to save) In my case, I "needed" to get the slotted sprockets so I could adjust the cams (because of the spacer) and just did not have the money!
Now, (after I clean up my work bench and put away my tools and parts) I am going to take the engine out and after a few test and checks, I will be sending the cams out for the adjustable sprockets and if what I think has happened, a new set of Stainless valves and install the cams (Properly timed). As for "Anyone" ever touching my engine (Even if I was a Millionaire which is still possible), it will "Never" Happen unless I lose both hands, my voice ans eyesight (I can still tell Randall what to do  )
What I am trying to tell everyone, even though a lot of time has lapsed, very little "Working on the Engine" time has been spent (About 4 Sundays, 2 Saturday Nights and 2 week days I had off, 1 thanks to Mr. Reagan) Not what I would call a serious amount of time spent so far! Please remember that even to the September race, there are only 11 Sundays because I am too old and tired to work on the bike after a full day at work. Then I have other work to do and will be out of town some of the weekends so think me having just 1 full 7 day week to get it all done again! I am also saying that everything I would do normally will be done and the engine will live up to my expectations. I was just hoping that I could get the job done under less than favorable circumstances!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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bigju
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted June 25, 2004 08:34 PM
Vince, I hope you get your bike running exactly like you want it reasonably soon. Hell, after waht you just ran down you deserve it. I guess the one thing I can say is that it sounds like things worked out and now you have time to do something you will enjoy
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 25, 2004 11:52 PM
VH,
time for a deep breath, and do just like you plan. put air on ea cyl and listen to see which valves are leaking. sounds kinda like you had the cam (s) off a few teeth and tagged the valves, eh? I have an extra set of adj cam sprockets i'll donate to yr effort if you want em.
cheer up, we're rooting for you!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 26, 2004 05:41 AM
Thanks Big! Thanks Ent (I know you mean it but I can afford it this time!) But this one is not simple. Actually Not only have I checked (Twice), but when I was on the Dyno, 2 people there also checked and argued over what and how much the base spacer made a difference in the cam timing. It is "Spot" On and (after removing most of the bolts in the cam plate, to see if somehow I had reversed the cams) we then realized that since I had never removed the sensor for the cam position that I had not reversed the cams either.
My personal feeling is one of 2 things. Old ways of doing things are hard to stop and maybe the lead solder (No it was not the "Tin" they use now and it had a hollow core also) bent the valves? I also know that Many JE Pistons are slightly off when they machine the valve pockets (The #1 Reason I asked for an extra .005 Radius for .010" larger valve pocket) just may have touched the valves. I will know more when I see for myself maybe as early as Sunday. (I must check the cam degrees first and CC the volume again with the engine on the floor so it will be at the "Bottom" of the spark Plug Hole). Then i can remove the head and see for myself!
Bergie, hard to do a "Leak down test" when there is "NO" Compression!
ent, do you have a set of "Purple" short stacks? (Now that the hot lick seems to be 2 of each for max performance) I am working on switching as many sets as I can to 2 short on the outside and 2 long in the middle!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 26, 2004 06:26 AM
VH,
I just mounted the tall 48mm stacks I got from Bear a couple weeks ago.
2 problems:
1. the O rings where the stack meets the TB were too thick; i.e. the ones Bear sent w/the TB's are 1.90mm+/- and they won't go in the TB's. Luckily I could use the 1.6mm+/- O rings which I had on my old 46mm Bear stacks.
Q: do you have a supply of 1.6mm O rings???? If so I need 8 of em, because I have a set of Bear's LOW 48mm stacks waiting for me at JohnnyCheese's shop, and I want to dyno with 1) tall stacks; 2)short stacks, and 3)mixed stacks NEXT SATURDAY.
2. One of my new 48mm stacks has an incorrectly cut groove (not deep enough) for the O ring which seals the stack to the airbox. I can get it cut deeper by a machine shop or get a thinner O ring. One way or the other i'll get it to fit right.
We all got problems, eh??
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted June 26, 2004 06:53 AM
Vince, you really need someone to help you who has built a 12 motor already!!!...I know just what you mean about working on your motor YOURSELF... But, I know a few guys with Lees motors on their 12 and Busas, and I will tell you this those guys are DragRacing them and running strong and consistant with no problems...
I figured you were a busy man, thats why I said treat yourself and have Lee do it for you...Im sure you deserve it after all the years of hard work, its time to RELAX Vince!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted June 26, 2004 07:29 AM
Okay, I will take a guess at your lack of compression.
1) Your valve shim clearances are now off and the cams are holding the valves open.
2) Ran lean and burnt hole in piston
3) That whole issue about the piston to wall clearance and you (filing?!) the piston or something has made your clearances to big because the piston slap was infact not supposed to be happening.
There are a few of us here that have had some MAJOR drama with our toys. I must always remind myself that this is a project surround my toy.
Watch your words and confessions cause these things will affect you too. (Thought for the day)
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 26, 2004 07:49 AM
Ent, Actually it is not 1.6 mm it is 1/16 inch that works. When Pierre decided to increase the clearance in the stacks by making the diameter smaller and the groves wider and deeper, someone programed the machine the "WRONG" way which caused the stacks to have a "Tigter" clearance and the "0" rings grooves to be narrower and shallower! Of course the "0" rings do not fit. I had to order 200 "0" rings to fit and is was actually this problem that caused a strain between us (Only as far as doing business because I have such a low tolorance for anything not perfect! Send me an e-mail with you address and I will send you a set (No Charge for anything)
Crotch Rocket for "Normal" people you are correct! You should know by now I was never Normal! The old expression of Seed the starving people and you will feed them forever. Teach them how to feed themselves and you do it once! The way people get experience and knowledge is usually by trial and error plus the time spend doing it! I will be experienced when I get finished (Remember what my pappy always said "Experience is always something you get immediately AFTER you need it"!
Please understand that when I go fast, it was "ME" that did it, not my money that did it. I designed and built it then I am the one that went fast!
RA, Correct guesses. I only had 2 exhaust valves that were not in spec and I went from 2.45 MM to 2.35 MM (.004 looser) when I only needed .002 to .003 more clearance so I do not think it is clearance. The Hole in the pistons is possible but with .060 thicker crown on the pistons and haveing never used NOS and in only 85 miles I do not think the pistons have a hole (But I will know soon). I like you hate the piston noise but most people have this. The pistons are at .0025 at the skirt and it is a tight .0025. I am looking at "CP" to make some pistons!
I will post as soon at I get it apart!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 26, 2004 10:30 AM
VH,
you got mail!!! I need 2 sets (16 O rings) and I need em by this coming Fri.
BUT! something for nothing is not the way I do biz although I much appreciate your offer of generosity. Send me you address and $$$ is on the way!!!
Thanks again!!
Karl
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 26, 2004 06:04 PM
You have bought 2 sets of stacks and you did not get them for "Nothing"! I am treating you the exact same way I have treated everyone that has Bear Stacks "I am replacing the "0" rings postage paid! (BTW, I usually use FedEx because it is cheaper I get a very special rate) you will have them Wednesday! You have mail also!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 26, 2004 07:24 PM
Edited By: entropy on 27 Jun 2004 05:46
Vincent,
YOU are a gentleman!
Thanks much!!
Now if I can just find a smaller thickness O ring for the seal one of the 3 stacks makes with the airbox, I will be set. Either that or I will have to have the groove machined a bit deeper as the groove is too shallow now
wierd, 3 of the stacks have a "good" groove, one does not. The CNC program must have hiccuped on that one.
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lonniemac
Expert Class
Posts: 225
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posted June 27, 2004 04:38 AM
hey vince whats up with the tall and short stacks? i have a set of red ones from bear that i got before i knew you. i havent seen anything on the early red ones. what are they. 46 or 48 . tall or short. i dont have the ability to tune each cylinder indepedently. but if you know what i could do i would be interested in a set to stagger my setup. ( my throttlebodies have been boared as well. thanks man.
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted June 27, 2004 09:29 AM
Sorry to hear bout all the problems Vincent. Guess these 3 little months I'm on tha bench for a spun bearing isn't so bad after all. It could be worse i see. I took the easy way out and took mine to Lee's. We drove though about 9hrs of pouring rain to get it there so hopefully it will be right this time.
Ever thought of a turbo wit that extra $$$ ? If i had it to do again, instead of a stroker thats the route i would go !
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768 Ryderz
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pdb1964
Zone Head
Posts: 536
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posted June 27, 2004 10:12 AM
Would stacks be of any use to a stock motor with full exhaust, filter and PC IIIr? Just curious.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted June 28, 2004 04:06 AM
Something happened to my post! Maybe I forgot to send it?
The Bear Stacks are different length than the bear stacks and I just do not know! For "Anyone" where 2 to 5 HP will not make a difference, the stacks are no help!
Either a Muzzy or Terry Kizer Turbo eventually!
Ent, you have mail. I am sending 3 sets! 1 - 2mm 1 - 1.6 mm and 1 - 1/16" Set
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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1bad12r
Zone Head
Posts: 567
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posted June 28, 2004 04:22 AM
Terry Kizer ? I'm sorry Vincent, but who is he ? Are his tubo's any cheaper than the Muzzy's ?
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768 Ryderz
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