entropy
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posted June 02, 2004 03:23 PM
Vincent Hill: Q on 48mm Bear stacks???
Bear sent me a set of 48mm stacks, things of beauty! They look really cool sitting on the 48mm TB's which Santa Claus sent to my house a few weeks ago!  Polished aluminum inside, gold anodized outside; jewels, indeed.
One question: they are drilled & tapped for juice which I am not gonna use, so I want to plug the holes. None of the metric cap screws I have seem to fit. Would you happen to know what size those holes are???
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ninja12
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posted June 02, 2004 03:31 PM
probably pipe thread.
look up the tap size supplied in the dry kits. schnitz come to mind.
as i think all the nitrous nozzles are the same.
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canadamaxxer
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posted June 02, 2004 04:06 PM
I believe it is a 1/16" NPT (national pipe thread) hole. Pipe plugs are available at Home Depot and places like that, but 1/16" is pretty small. Probably a plumbing or hydraulic store would be your best bet (ideally an allen plug fitting).
Honestly though, you probably don't need to plug them off. I would think that any plug you install is going to cause as much of an airflow disturbance as leaving them open. Just MHO....
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entropy
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posted June 02, 2004 04:17 PM
good tips on the pipe thread! And it prolly won't make any difference, but I'm ALMOST as bad as Vince when it comes to details; almost... 
Being detail oriented must come with being a crusty ole fart, tho' I still have a couple yrs till I catch VH in age.
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oldkawboy
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posted June 02, 2004 04:36 PM
Entropy,
Bear told me to just leave them open, I first siliconed them closed (had fears of wondering bolts in the TB's) but have since removed it.
Dan
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VincentHill
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posted June 02, 2004 07:00 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 2 Jun 2004 20:02
Dan Is Correct! The "Increase" is air Flow starts right at the Bottom of the Hole. He has tested the Air Flow and Power and the Holes make "Zero" or LESS difference! (I do know how you feel! If you are not using it you do not want it!)
btw, THE Holes are 1/16" pipe tap! as in NOS Nozzles
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 02:26 AM
Edited By: entropy on 3 Jun 2004 04:31
Thanks oldkawboy & VH!
next question:
The 48mm nitrous drilled stacks i have in my hot lil hands are higher profile than the ones i am using right now. Have you guys done any real world testing on high profile vs low profile stacks?
Bear emailed me and said VH might have had some luck on mixed (like many busa guys do). I will order a set of low profile ones also so I can do my own testing, but any advance info would be much appreciated!
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 02:32 AM
quote:
Thanks oldkawboy & VH!
next question:
The 48mm nitrous drilled stacks i have in my hot lil hands are higher profile than the 46mm ones which are on my bike right now. Have you guys done any real world testing on high profile vs low profile stacks?
I am under the impression that low profile gives higher peak hp, whereas the high profile fattens the torque/hp curve lo and mid.
I really don't want any more hp down low. Nice problem to have, but i don't like wheelies (too old fer that shit). I am most interested in 9000-11000 hp.
Bear emailed me and said VH might have had some luck on mixed (like many busa guys do). I will order a set of low profile ones also so I can do my own testing, but any advance info would be much appreciated!
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VincentHill
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posted June 03, 2004 02:52 AM
See if you can get him to make "2" because very few people are using 48 MM I do not think that you would want all "4" short or Long!
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 03:34 AM
i just ordered a set of shorts, but even better.
If the mixed arrangement is best, I will have 2 sets of mixed, and will donate the 2nd set to the "secret Santa" who donated the 48mm TB's to me, as he has a 2nd set of 48mm TB's.
BTW: do the shorts go on #2, #3???
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VincentHill
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posted June 03, 2004 03:39 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 3 Jun 2004 14:03
My plan is 1 - 4 for the short! Think about it and look at how the air comes into the box, then what you think it does when it hits the back wall of the Air Box! Would the long or short ones interfere the most with the incoming air? When the Air Bounces of the back wall of the air box, do you want to be closer or farther away from it to Capture it? (The long ones are closer the the air that will come of of the back wall of the Air-Box Now that Dan has spoken. I could not speak directly because it was "His" Testing and it had to be him that told you directly.)
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 04:01 AM
Edited By: entropy on 3 Jun 2004 05:01
I don't have a clue about the dynamics of the airbox... I do know that we lost 5+ hp on the dyno by NOT having the rubber boots on the ram air system. Who woulda figured that???
I figured that mixed stack height gains somehow figured into the difference in AF which Cheeseman found with the middle 2 cyl vs the outer 2 ones. I don't know shit about this stuff. 
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Marcos Peguero
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posted June 03, 2004 04:39 AM
Any of you have seen a thing called cyclone or something like that for cars. They come in diferent sizes. I wonder if 4 small ones would do for a ZX12r. Maybe that can be tested.
They say that the circular motion that the air is doing helps power.
That makes sense because if you have better mixture, is more power.
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Marcos Peguero
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posted June 03, 2004 05:11 AM
Another quiestion.
Wy the stacks are so expensive? from my point of view.
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VincentHill
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posted June 03, 2004 06:33 AM
quote:
Another quiestion.
Wy the stacks are so expensive? from my point of view.
The easiest question I have seen for a long time. First, they take time to design and then testing of the different designs to see where they gain and lose HP. Then once you know these things (Time and money spent on flow benches and Cad Cam machines making them) then you must buy large solid pieces of aluminum (Air Craft Grade) Billet aluminum. Then they must set up the solid bars in the machine and run the computer program to make each one. They can take between 1/2 hour to 2 hours to make each one or 2 to 8 hours of "Just" machine time to make 1 set! Then they must be anodized. Now you must get the correct "0" Rings and then pack and ship to the buyer.
WOuld you do all of that work for a "POSSIBLE" $250.00? Remember, there is no guarantee that they will sell any of them so it is also an investment that they hope people will buy! Any questions now?
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 07:06 AM
The 48mm stacks are a work of art, and even better they fit the 48mm throats PERFECTLY. I am not bitching about the price.
Besides, I view any money spent with Bear as a donation to his racing program.
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Marcos Peguero
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posted June 03, 2004 07:23 AM
Thanks for the explication....
What are the benefits of the 48mm ones.
thanks
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VincentHill
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posted June 03, 2004 07:26 AM
ENT! You are correct! I think we have seen every penny that he has ever made at the track (and then some "Sponsorship")
The only draw back to the stacks is only we know how good they look!
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 11:24 AM
quote:
What are the benefits of the 48mm ones.
thanks
The 48's are bigger, and my wife continually reminds me that "bigger is better, not that you'd know". 
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VincentHill
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posted June 03, 2004 11:44 AM
They fit specially Bored out Throttle Bodies!
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oldkawboy
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posted June 03, 2004 12:50 PM
This is "For what it's worth department"
I just finished dyno testing stack configurations. I've had short ones, then long ones and compared dragstrip and dyno runs.
First of all this is on my 12, yours outcome may be different.
The best combo for me was the short stacks on the outside and the long stacks on the inside. It was the best of both worlds and remind you that we are only talking about 1-2 hp here but it's the best overall throughout the hp and tq range.
I'll field any questions later as we are heading out the door for Chad's St. Louis race.
Be back Monday evening.
Dan
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entropy
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posted June 03, 2004 01:23 PM
Thx OKB!!
1 or 2 hp on the dyno may get boosted to 2-3hp at speed.
When I get back from vacation, we'll measure AF of each cyl separately, then mount 2+2 as you and VH suggest. It'll be interesting to see if there is an impact on AF with uneven stacks, eh?
Thx again!
Karl
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BEAR
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posted June 04, 2004 01:01 AM
Harry I am sorry the bracket did not get to you ,I gave it the zx12rturbo guy in portorico and hoped he would send it to you. But nobody will know what he wants to do with 2
Will get you one made up ASAP
BEAR
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harryzx-12
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posted June 04, 2004 02:27 AM
Thanks Bear!
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