Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted May 12, 2004 03:26 AM
Scammin' bastard....
Kick his ass, it's the universal way to solve problems. 
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
  
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koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted May 12, 2004 03:52 AM
Tearinitup,
Don't take offense to my post, this has nothing to do with you personally. I guess you work for DJ.
quote:
FYI: Instead of releasing a new model that does ignition and pissing all of you off again/more, we are in the process of developing an ignition module that you purchase separately from the PCIIIusb. New set of firmware and a new module is all that it will require to upgrade to ignition.
You see, this (Above) is exactly what I'm talking about! They purposely designed the NEW usb model without timing, knowing they can SQEEZE every last nickel from us, later.
Gee, I feel better (NOT) that they decided not to LIE to us about the timing not being available, like they did last time. How is it, a leopard does not change its spots. Once a nickel & dime chiseler, always a chiseler!
I really think DJ should change their name to N&D (Nickel & Dime), because that is ALL they are about. I have boycotted DJ + K&N products ever since they showed how they treated their customers. I used to buy K&N oil and air filters, no more. BMC/any other high perf. air filters and OEM/Mobil 1 oil filters. This is MY way of saying FUCK YOU!
DynoJet if your listing, STICK YOUR IGNITION MODULE UP YOUR ASS!
Koz
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Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
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posted May 12, 2004 04:57 AM
KOZ!!!!
Koz,
Whether people agree with you, or disagree with you, they must give you props for being honest. I for one respect that in an individual and take my hat off to you sir. I try as hard as possible to never "sugarcoat" anything, and call it like I see it. It may not be the popular opinion, or even correct, but at least people are clear on where I stand. I always say that honesty takes a lot of "guess work" out of life. Nobody ever has to guess "What does he really think" when I'm involved. My money says that you are the same way, good on ya brother. Harry is another that falls into this group as well. Brutally honest, gotta love it.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
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posted May 12, 2004 06:14 AM
Dyno's are a funny thing IMO,
Too much is put into the final HP numbers, If I were setting a bike up for Dyno races then the HP numbers would mean something.
My big intrest in the dyno if my bike was on it running would be Air Fuel Ratio, That number is gonna show you that you are running safe with your aftermarket pipe and air filter,
Any bike can be set up to run high dyno numbers, Cam degree and how lean you wanna run it. Cam Degree means your moving HP from one area to another. It don't mean it will make it faster. You will lose someplace and gain on top end on degreeing cams, And Air fuel Ratio determines how long the engine will last. You run lean and not for long, You run rich and you have loss of HP and more maint,
Get the most out of what you have safely and you will enjoy your efforts without headaches of problems.
And another deal with dynos. That nobody takes note of. Air Temp, Humidity, And Barametric pressure. That is as important as the final AFR air fuel ratio to me. Some days are good HP days and some days suck. And what type of day was engine set up to run at the AFR.
To me 8-10 HP makes no difference on the street, Maybe on the strip in high stakes racing. But the throttle control and riders abilty is what makes the difference IMHO.
I would like to see a closed loop ECU on the 2005 ZX12R, Then all you would need to do is chip it and not map.
I have a good understanding about air because of trimming jet engines, Setting em up, I am not a motor builder, Nor dyno expert, But I know what good air is and what bad air is. And what the air does to combustion engines. To me 10 horsepower is not worth it. Give me some here and take some away there.
But a good pipe and good filters and properly tuned AFR bike is damm well worth it.
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Lead, Follow, Or get the hell outta the way.
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Outlaw1
Zone Head
Posts: 803
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posted May 12, 2004 06:19 AM
Chris you got real good AFR numbers there man, Air Fuel Ratio, A base AFR and HP dyno chart would be nice to see what they did.
They should have that. I would think. They had to start from something, Then you could see what if any tuning was needed.
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Tearinitup
Expert Class
VP Code Monkey
Posts: 298
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posted May 12, 2004 06:56 AM
Koz, I absolutely don't take personal offense at most comments here.  Atleast I try not to. Anyway. I am a software programmer on the R&D team and had nothing to do with any marketing decisions good or bad.
Straight up (no BS) the ignition module is not finished yet, we are not holding it back in marketing. We dumped the old method of modifying ignition (we used to intercept the crank signal and trick the ecu, PCII/PCIIIr), now we are building a system that directly intercepts the coil signals and fires the coils directly. This will give us better control of the end result and also all us to trim each plug/cylinder for both fuel and timing completely independantly.
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted May 12, 2004 08:13 AM
OK Now I am PISSED OFF! I call there this morning and the woman picks up again and she immediately puts me on hold and then comes back and says he out again and what is my problem. I again go over the fact that I still have not received the map he said he would send me and wanted to ask why he didn't do a baseline run and I'm getting the feeling he's dodging me and that I am considering disputing the charges on my credit card. She says he will call me back when he gets in, I ask when that may be and she said this afternoon. Well, I'll be damned if he didn't call in 2 minutes, irate. This fella actually said to me don't come back here anymore. Said it's only been four days and what is the rush? What is the rush??? Well, I told him, you said you would e-mail me the map on friday and I have called everyday since then and you haven't even bothered to call me back. He was just a total prick. I asked him why he didn't do a baseline map so I can compare the pulls and that it runs worse now than before. He said he couldn't remember if he did one or not, WHAT how can you not remember? Well, my response to that was yeah you did tell me you were up all night partying for Cinco Dimyo and he didn't say anything. I then said you know what I am a business owner too and if I treated my customers the way you have treated me I'd be out of business, just send me the map. He said he'll check on it. FUCK I AM PISSED and calling my credit card company.
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Zaphod Breeblebox
Expert Class
Posts: 117
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posted May 12, 2004 09:49 AM
 Edited By: Zaphod Breeblebox on 12 May 2004 10:50
quote:
I would like to see a closed loop ECU on the 2005 ZX12R, Then all you would need to do is chip it and not map.
I would love to retrofit a closed-loop system on my current bike - if one existed - but I'm sure it would be prohibitively expensive.
In a closed-loop system, if the ECU has a broad enough base map, you can do fairly extensive bolt-on stuff without the need for any remapping or "chipping." Example: My (formerly mine, that is) '89 Ford Mustang GT with its stock OBD-compliant ECU could accommodate equal-length shorty headers, cat-back system, larger throttle body & mass air sensor (appropriately calibrated), aftermarket intake plenum, GT40 heads, and a mild cam - all while maintaining the proper A/F ratio and producing California-compliant emissions.
It just frustrates me no end that it has to be so difficult to simply put a pipe on a fuel-injected motorcycle.
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Zaphod
Y2K ZX-12R
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 12, 2004 10:01 AM
Muzzy EMS provides closed loop functionality with a wideband 02 sensor as well.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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Zaphod Breeblebox
Expert Class
Posts: 117
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posted May 12, 2004 10:09 AM
Ah, I didn't know that. Can the EMS accommodate a pipe change without having to go through a dyno tuning session?
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Zaphod
Y2K ZX-12R
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 12, 2004 11:35 AM
Otis, #1, you do "NOT" need him to send you a map! It is already in your PC! All you need to do is install the Program in your lap top (I have to use a 50 foot cable) and plug your PC into your Lap top and click "GET ALL" it will then load the mapping from the PC into your Computer. Then click "SAVE AS" and put a name on it and then save it into your Map Files.
After doing this , Install the map you got previous and "UP LOAD ALL" and then go anywhere they have a Dyno and pay the $50 for a couple dyno runs and see what you have. Screw him. You do not need him and neither do we because your next call / mail is to DynoJet where you tell them your story so that he will be removed from their list of "Approved" Operators!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 12, 2004 11:36 AM
Well..id assume you would have to take the appropriate measures to move the 02 sensor to the new pipe..but yea!
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted May 12, 2004 11:38 AM
I know I didn't need it from him Vinnie, it was more the point than anything. He promised he would send it via e-mail that day and he didn't then all this hubbub happened. Anyway. I got an e-mail from him a bit ago and he apologized and sent the map. As far as I'm concerned, it's over and I just won't go back there.
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