VincentHill
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posted February 08, 2004 07:37 AM
Slug, you give me hope for this place!! Even about the type of work to look for. For a young person (To me, anyone under 50!) That is an excellent idea.
When I started out I had to do the same thing for different reasons. I went to Ohio State and Studied Aeronautical Engineering in the early to mid 60's. The problem was, all of the companies were in the South ot South West. Since "Equal Rights" had not come about, the question of Race
always listed as 1, 2 or Other were still on the application at that time. (The Other was usually for Mexicans). It was during this eye opening experience I decided to get into Finance and then Collections. I realized that when things were bad, that I would be in demand and when things were good, I could get a Job anywhere! I have now done this type of work for over 35 years and made a fair living at it. SO getting a job that you like in a field that connot move is a good idea!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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blubyu
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Posts: 209
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posted February 08, 2004 10:33 AM
Slug/Vince You guys are right to a certain extent. I too am in an industry that will never die and no matter where I'm located, there will be a demand. Then statement about individual choices is only partially correct. Not everyone looks for government handouts, it's a simple fact that if they don't have the advanced education, they're opportunity for a better paying job diminishes. An education cost...point blank. Someone may make a choice to go to school however, if they can't afford it, it's not going to happen.
I don't care how smart or determined someone is, if they come through a subpar school system, they're true potential will never be realized or when it finally does, it's almost too late. Joe Smo can be smart as a whip, but if he's not prepared properly from middle school through high school, he'll never make it through differential equations or calculus based phyics. He might need that going into the Nuclear Power field right Slug. Gentlemen it all boils down to one word. " Access" OK.. I'm off the soap box!
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necro
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My Grandma Is A Virgin
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posted February 08, 2004 11:12 AM
Politics....I better stay out of it.
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
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posted February 08, 2004 11:15 AM
Then how is it that subpar systems STILL have successful people?
the school system i attended was considered subpar. We didn't have big budget, most of the advanced courses were over CCTV. but advanced courses i got were in the english side of things. mathematically i was somewhat behind the curve. Yes, it is good to have a background in high school. but noone ever said that the ONLY education one could get was through public school or via college. Any number of places have books, and ANY willing person can learn whatever they want on just about anything.
to accept the excuse that their high school did not supply them with X course means that we all accept that unless it is handed to us we can't have it...
used book stores often have great deals on any number of in depth texts. all it takes is a serious effort and some time to find a deal and you're all set.
i disagree that personal choice is not totally correct. i never said everyonelooks for government handouts.
I hold no degrees of any sort. all my training was via military technical schooling, which is free to any that join up and make a commitment.
If you lack the higher level math skills (determined by ASVAB and a pre-screening test for the power program) then you can study on your own to make sure you pass that test. Just like any other standardized test, the asvab has study guides out there.
the military schools were intense, but not impossible. as long as you decided not to party and decided to study, it was possible. most of the drops from the program were behavior related...
people choose to succeed or fail. one that has chosen to fail, will always do so, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
those that say that they would have done something if only they were rich and could have etc. excuses...
we have to face it, people make choices every moment of their lives, but it's easier to blame circumstances instead of action....ergo the circumstances will get the blame.
"but if he's not prepared properly from middle school through high school, he'll never make it through differential equations or calculus based phyics. "
high school i got pretty much straight Ds in physics, was it because the chemistry class i had that was supposed to be built on sucked? or because i dislike chemistry and didn't try as hard....
I took physics again the next year and got much better scores.....but i was trying harder too
something to consider. i've been there, i understand being in a 'bad' situation and in schools that were less than stellar.
but once i figured out that it was MY life things change.
" Gentlemen it all boils down to one word. " Access" "
Access: what exactly do you mean by that? EASY access? or just saying that some people are straight up not allowed to be succesful because noone will give them the 'access'?
Are people truly born succesful? or is it something that has to be achieved?
by the same token, are people born as failures, and never will overcome that? or is it something that is also achieved over time?
if you believe that all people are born as succes or failures, then that is truly a sad outlook on life.
   
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted February 08, 2004 12:44 PM
I was reading the "Washington Post" (I know, not for Conservatives), But they were talking about Wal-Mart and how Sam said it was going to be all "Made In America". and how if Wal Mart was a country that they would be ahead of Britian and Germany in World Trade to China. They buy 1/8 of the entire Export of China. They also spoke about the fact that even in China, Wal-Mart is a hard task Master. The average worker makes between $75 to $150 a "MONTH" and that the sign on the wall all say, "If you do not work hard today, you will be hard at work tomorrow looking for a new another Job because there are Millions of people waiting to take your place"! They showed how most of the workers all had bandages on their hands making circuit boards from pushing in the parts and that no one was furnished gloves. It t6alked about how even the people in China feel that Wal-Mart pushes too hard by telling them that there are other Countries they can do business a "LOT" Cheaper! Wal-Mart even refuses to open stores in China so that the workers will not know how much the things they make sell for and the fact that none of them could even afford to buy any of them. How most of the workers are Vegetarian because none of them can afford Meat of any kind. They also spoke about how Wal-Mart has put pressure on the government to lower the value of their money now that the US has lowered the value of its money so that they can make even a larger Profit. Wal-Mart uses the countries own labor laws, and not ours. They audit what the manufactures do by making announced visits allowing at least several months advanced notice. One Wal-Mart official even admitted that if they made surprise visits, that the price of goods sold in their stores would go UP. Even still, they find people under 16 working over 80 hours a week when they should only be working 60 and the records are false so that the Overtime that is not paid can be changed!
I think I may stop going to Wal-Mart for anything I can find anywhere else! I even think that Sam Walton might not even want to buy from his own store if he were alive today!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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addisonzx12
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posted February 08, 2004 01:44 PM
 Edited By: addisonzx12 on 8 Feb 2004 16:57
Yep, WALMART SUCKS! Not only for their shitty practices! But how it allows other retailers(Sears comes to mind!) to use Walmart as a excuse to cut their own employee benefits!! ie. "we need to make the cuts to stay competitive with other retailers like Walmarts"! Walmart is making a lot of bad precedents in the business community! And I bet you Sam Walton himself initiated a lot of the current practices! There ARE NO billionaires, that are not EXCEPTIONALLY GREEDY! If there were generous, they could never have accumlated that kind of wealth!
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bigju
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posted February 08, 2004 03:52 PM
Vince, you and Addison both make a good point about Wal Mart. Like you after reading that I'm not going to shop there either. Sears on the other hand really screwed its employees!! They ofrce many into retirement or major pay cuts. At the same time giving the CEO a huge bonus. Now if your losing money it isn't the people in the store's fault its corporate. An example of how FUCKED up sears is, my mother revised the employee training manual from front to back. For her effort she got a small note in the manual and $75.00 the fucking CEO failed to see how out dated the manual was and did nothing. He got a multi million dollar bonus, my mother corrects the problem and gets $75.00 COMPLETE BULL SHIT!! I wish the people working themselves in the ground could afford to tell these slave drivers to go fuck themselves. This kinda labor practice is nothing but another form of slavery.
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VincentHill
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posted February 09, 2004 07:49 AM
Big, If you figure out that one, you will be the first! Remember, someone just got fired (American Airlines CEO) after he got concessions from the Pilots and others and then voted himself a huge pay raise. He had to go because he could not fly all of the planes and that was what he was going to need to do if they were going to make a dime more!
I am going to start something here, but I can remember when my dad voted Republican every now and then and it caused Hell in our family. I would ask him why he did it and he would say, "People must live within their means. If you do not have the money to pay for something, then do not buy it! The Republicans believe in living with in their means and so do I"! Now we have a situation where the first time in the History of out country, we are at War and the man in charge is getting Congress to "CUT Taxes" My dad if he were alive would never understand that! This is part of what started this thread when Big AL said, we must stop the tax cuts and not renew the ones we made and enlarge the army of Regulars so that the reserve is not being used as the primary means of fighting the war! Remember, Bush went into the reserve to avoid seing action in Viet Nam. Today, he would have benn on the front line! This is wrong! The Reserve should be used to cover things over here and the Regualr Army should be fighting the war! It is things like this he is saying that make me think, if he gets it, we all should get it!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Otis
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posted February 09, 2004 08:47 AM
Edited By: Otis on 9 Feb 2004 08:49
Interesting thread. This is the first time I poked my head in hear cause Al Sharpton holds as much interest to me as anyone in hollywierd, ZERO. But I digress. What I have learned from this thread is that
1) Addison is a bitter man who is obviously not successful and blames anyone who is, including any business who may want to maximize profits..even though that's WHY any business is in business. DUH.
2) Blubyu has no idea what is going on in the international arena but sounds like a blowhorn for Howard Dean, not winning the war on terrorism?
3) Slug, as usual, bringing excellent points with sound and rational thought, although if you vote for the Dem's in 04' to try to avoid Hillary 08', I'll have some words for you.
4) Harry is my hero
5) Vincent, my polital nemisis, you are sounjding rather rational lately and while I still think you are misguided in some areas, you're a good man and there is hope for you.
Listen fellas, the point needs to be and always be, pick yourselves up, work hard, make no excuses, find a way. America is great because of millions of examples of INDIVIDUAL GREATNESS. Not millions of whiners who live on entitlements and balme others for thier shortfalls or laziness.
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It's a free country brother
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VincentHill
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posted February 09, 2004 10:38 AM
Otis, "My Brother"!! Even you seem rational and spoke a lot of truth. I have seen some of the hoops and hurdles the government put business through and if nothing else, that is a reason for people like yourself to vote Republican. (A government dilemma given to business. "Tell us how many minorities are working for you, but you are not allowed to note the applications of what race anyone is"?) So Otis, I understand your fustration, and as had as it would be for you to write up something about Al Baby, is was just that hard for me! (Maybe harder because of my race). It was just the fact that I could not understand why any human with any brain power that had eyes and ears would give that man the time of day, let alone a vote. So when I was watching the others, and "HAD" to hear what he had to say, to say the least I was Shocked! He was actually speaking like a person that knew something and had an idea (who cares from where) on how he would handle it! In other words, I had mis-judged do to my own prejudices (not him0 but the people that vote for him!
The idea of making sure we get the white house this year so Hillary will not be in a position to run the next time, Great Idea! Maybe if she had given Mr. Bill a little head way  maybe he would have stayed out of "Some" of his trouble! And Mr. Harry, his problem is, he cannot speak directly or to the point!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Otis
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Captain Kickstand
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posted February 09, 2004 10:53 AM
Edited By: Otis on 9 Feb 2004 10:54
I do wish the Gov't would stay out of business for sure. I wish the Gov't would stay out of a lot of things. I wish the Gov't would be here for what it is intended. Providing a strong military for the safety of it's citizens and providing a free market for the exchange of goods and services. Now there are certainly caveats in such a loose definition, but in essence that's it.
Hillary is just a scary beast. I can't blame Bill for dippin' his willy elsewhere, he just should have waited til he was out of office. If Hilderbeast runs for President, trust me when I tell you there will be a conservative movement like no one's ever imagined. Forces unknown will come out to stop her from ever being President. QUite frankly, I'd like to see Guliani run against her in 06' for the NY senate seat, which he will win, then she'll be out of a stump for 2 years and rendered as useless as she really is.
About Harry, yeah that fella sure can mince words can't he? LOL
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It's a free country brother
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VincentHill
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posted February 09, 2004 11:28 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 9 Feb 2004 11:29
I like the "Pun" Dipping his "Willie". The Republicans will be in concert against her like the Dems are with Georgie Boy. You know that I would have voted for McCain over Gore and Rudy is not a bad Idea? At least better than a lot of the others out there and he has run a large government. He did allow the Police to get out of Hand to the point of them shooting the unarmed man 28 times. Bonnie and Clyde were not shot as many times were they?? I think if the mention Harry's name when we pray, it may help, then again, the Lord may just say Hell NO
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Otis
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posted February 09, 2004 11:52 AM
Edited By: Otis on 9 Feb 2004 11:53
I don't know anything about the shooting so I can't speak to that but I do know that under Rudi, NY's crime rate dropped dramatically. Is he tough? You bet, but how else to deal with criminals or terrorists or brutal dictators, except to be tough. No wheenies for me thanks.
Oh I think Harry will have a place right beside God. I can see it now.
God: "Well Harry what about this fella, heaven or hell?"
Harry: "Fuck that motherfucker, HELL!"
God: "Harry what about this woman, heaven or hell?"
Harry: "Shit, I'd fuck the hell right out of that bitch anyway so, HEAVEN!"
LMAO
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted February 09, 2004 12:05 PM
That is why he is in for a "Hell" of a time! I do not think he will make it past the main gate! Plus, arn't the "Beautiful" people supposed to get to heaven? Where does that leave Harry?? Now our wives will have no trouble, but what about us??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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blubyu
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Posts: 209
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posted February 09, 2004 08:09 PM
Well Otis I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions.
All I know is half of you live in a dream world above the clouds and are too scared to look down to see what the fuck is really going on. All this choice this and choice that bullshit is garbage. There are a few of you who started beneath the clouds but now that you are above them, you are too scared to look down for fear you may fall back. I started on the bottom and pulled my way up, but not without help. From my position now, I can reach down to help others and at the same time see the hurdles that are in their way. Otis it's you who doesn't know what's going on.
You guys get your "war on terrorism" figures from CNN and you think it's gospel. Wake the fuck up. You see and hear what they want you to hear. This war on terrorism is in a constant state of flux with no winner in site. Sure, I place my bet on the Great US, but that shit is not happening no time soon.
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
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posted February 09, 2004 08:10 PM
i've got to do some research on walmart, i have heard rumours of eminent domain on top of everything else
what's sad is 10 years ago walmart was kinda considered an american sucess story.
now it's a behemoth.
If the allegations of the eminent domain abuses are correct then i will be turning in my sam's card forever. I'll write a nice long letter to go with it when i mail it back to them outlining why. I'll also make it a point to avoid anything to do with walmart or its holdings.
But sadly i'm not sure if there are any large retailers that are any better. I think many have tasted of the ED cup and found it pleasing.
Something i thought about this afternoon while sanding fairings in the shed. (fixing streetbike up to look better, the plastics are all cracked and hosed up)
A guy on another forum had to pay 2 years of income tax because the county he lives in voted to, and enacted, a RETROACTIVE income tax on itself. You have to wonder what they were thinking. But it mad eme think again of the shortfalls of our horrid taxation system. The boston tea party was thrown over much smaller amount of taxes..
Why does government have an insatiable budget?
i can't help but wondering why in the WORLD we should pay people who are failed artists, so they can continue to fail? national endowment for the arts..
I think it would amaze the average american what their tax dollars REALLY get spent on. if they only knew....The jokes about 50 dollar hammers aside, some of the really idiotic things that our money gets spent on is amazing.
My brother was talking about a time he was having a discussion with a coworker. he was talking about something, and the guy said oh, let the government do it they have plenty of money. My brother asked him if he realized that the money was there because it was taken from taxpayers.
the guy's response? "Oh, i finally met someone who beleives the government gets its money from taxes"
he just stopped talking, turned around and left, it wasn't worth the effort.
sadly there are plenty of people who think that way, and beleive that the government is the solution.
but anyway i was sanding body panels, and remembered why the constitution was written to prevent income tax. because the government isn't supposed to have that kind of power over it's people. I just wonder what those who wrote the constitution would say if they witnessed washington DC and our current politics situation. Probably just throw their hands up and wonder what in hell they bothered with that revolutionary war crap...
PS top notch pun there hehe
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Otis
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posted February 10, 2004 03:56 AM
CNN? Sorry, up here above the clouds we don't need it, so I don't watch it.
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
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posted February 10, 2004 04:39 AM
If you get your war on terror news from CNN you're going to get a negative bias anyway....the same goes for the iraq war. every media outlet was saying the same stuff, we were losing, it could never be done etc etc...
using communist news network as an example for your little 'slam' is quite amusing because of that. They have saidover and over again they are NOT american, but inernational. and their coverage has shown that fact. in attempts to appease everyone, they skew their own reporting to an anti-usa slant.. too funny
but no, i don't get my news figures from any one source. but look around you. howmany terrorist attacks have hapenned since 2001? maybe results don't matter to you, but for groups that vowed to do worse by that Christmas, or onthe anniversary dates, or majorholidays, or any of the other threats they made, they sure haven't managed to accomplish squat.
http://arabnews.com/ is an interesting site to read as well, speaking of bias ;P BUT they have quite a few decent contributors, and it often is educational..
Nowhere in any of my posts did i say that success was EASY. it hink i made it a point that it required hard work and determination. Isn't that how you got ahead?
as far as the "no help" aspect of things, there is difference between someone helping out a person in need when they need it, and of that help being compulsory by some outside entity.
Dec 28 my parent's house burned down. gone, nothing left. They live in a small town, not a very high income area. Yet within 6 hours they had a place to stay, food, clothes to wear. This month they'll take delivery of a trailer for temporary until rebuild/replace/move is decided. but these were all VOLUNTARY contributions, from people all around.
The major "help" charities wouldn't do anything. red cross said sorry, someone is letting you stay in their home, so nohelpthere. oh, you had food at hospital so no help there.
odd. i will be making contributions to the local small-town charity there,but not to red cross.
when i went up there i fully expected to be helping to buy a trailer or something, or an apartment. was it gonna hurt a little? yes. but those people are my family. does anyone expect the government to step inand help? not a chance. why should they have to?
but because my parents aren't assholes to everyone, and since there are people left in this world who still take the time and effort to care about the people theylive around, a lot of extra expense was saved, just from people donating used stuff to help out. Was it required? no as they hadn't pissed off the entire family either... But helping people out is completely different from being forced to help...the spirit is gone.
you can continue to tirade and rant about noone giving a crap about the people 'below the clouds' as you put it, but you need to get the hell into real life and see what people can do if they aren't alienated. If you have no friends to help you, andyou think that situations are insurmountable, then you need to get real and figure out what the difference is between working to achieve a goal, and being given that goal for free. NOTHING in life is easy. accept it, get over it. is it criminal to help people? no. but don't get on a high horse because you think that they cannot choose to help themselves and that you're better than us for caring about those people when you have no clue what you're talking about.
the government does NOT exist to give us all a free life and a silver platter loaded with goodies. it is there to ensure that we have the OPPORUNITY to make allife for ourselves. ever heard of the "American Dream"? The government is there ot make sure we are safe from outside forces, and to ensure that our freedoms as individuals to choose are not infringed on. They are not there to coddle and placate the masses.
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Otis
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posted February 10, 2004 07:03 AM
< hand reaching way down south to shake slug's hand >
Very well written slug, I couldn't have written better myself, plus I didn't have time this moring. LOL
Sorry to hear about your parents house burning down. I had a friend that that happened to about 5 years ago, he was bummed about the house but devistated over the loss of years and years of photos and family memorabilia that just cannot be replaced.
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It's a free country brother
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VincentHill
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Posts: 6520
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posted February 10, 2004 07:29 AM
Otis, I tell people that the truly important possession they have other than their life is Photographs. It is the only thing that is truly not replaceable.
Slug, speaking of Taxes, Imagine paying taxes and truly have "NO VOTE"! I live in DC and we have no representation and usually the District committee is headed up by some southern Red Neck like Throm Thurman or Jessie Helms (Both out now, but did head the Committee which to me was like having the Massers over the slaves all over again, but this time paying the the Massers Salary! There are 5 states with a smaller Population than DCand for those that do not know, there is The Federal District of Columbia and the City of Washington. Seperate out the Federal part even named "Federal Triangle" and allow Washington Residents a vote with 1 represenative and 2 Senators like the rest of you guys! Fair is Fair, or just stop Taxing us!
Slug, how would you feel if you paid tax and could have "ZERO" Say so (even at the Ballot Box)? Would it sound like Iraq? Does to me!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Otis
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posted February 10, 2004 08:25 AM
Agreed about the photos Vincent, that's why I have over 6500 pics of my daughter on my hard drive and backup disks. LOL
In fact we just had some professionally done. Is she not the cutest little girl ever?
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It's a free country brother
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addisonzx12
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posted February 10, 2004 09:06 AM
Otis, WTF!!! Your opinions are typical from someone thats takes over the family business!!! I seem to remember a thread not too long ago from you complaining about the STRESS of you & your brother BUYING the family business from your fatrher. Right, buying it from him with money he gave you in the first place! You worked for your father correct? So therefore, all monies used in the purchase of his business was given to you by him to begin with, correct?
By the way, this is not a personal attack on you,the vast majority of wealth in the country was inherited! But people given jobs by famlily members are the lucky few & not typical american workers!! I am truly envious of you, I wish my father was in a position to give me such a good job! Count your blessings!! But, never try to represent a average worker. You haven't a clue!
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Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
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posted February 10, 2004 09:37 AM
Are you suggesting I haven't earned where I'm at because my parents owned the company? So going to college while working at night and taking on school loans to pay my own way because my father's business wasn't doing well enough for them to help me doesn't count? And working for another company after graduation and starting at the bottom but working hard and being promoted to manager over 60 people within 5 years doesn't count? See my father said screw you to hiring me after school, he wanted me to work for someone else for 5 years so I would NEVER have the impression that I get ANYTHING for free. Give me such a good job??? When he hired me I took a $28,000 a year pay CUT to come here and I started at the bottom! I had to get promoted on the same criteria as non family members. My brother and I chose to take on the debt to buy the business off my parents. We're not buying with money they gave us. Man you are a dumb shit Addison. You actually think I've got the silver spoon in my mouth and just can't recognize that I may have worked my fucking ass off to get where I am. My parents gave me nothing but the chance to prove myself, if I was a lazy, blame others for my problems piece of shit like you they'd have fired me a long time ago. You don't know me motherfucker so don't ever assume anything about me or my life.
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It's a free country brother
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slug
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Out in search of my mind...
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posted February 10, 2004 09:47 AM
and it isn't like this is first time otis has discussed his career path,..
in fact i think he mentioned it in the thread he spoke about the buying....
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted February 10, 2004 09:52 AM
I want to be rich. I think we all do? I don't think ANYONE needs to defend any opportunity that they may have been presented with (work, family, lotto whatever) that gave them the chance to be rich. Me, I'm just a poor boy from the country. I think I need to:
1. Find a rich single gal silly enough to marry me
2. Hit the Lotto (just a matter of time - I KNOW it  )
3. Suddenly discover that my long lost uncle is donald trump or bill gates
But I NEVER begrudge anyone for taking the opportunities presented to them. The people that make me most mad are the people that sit and let opportunity pass them right by - that is my definition of slacker .
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