VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2004 01:45 PM
I am even willing to bet that I am "More" Conservative than you are, but like religion, we can agree to disagree on "How" to get there 
BTW, anyone that rides a Bike cannot be all bad to begin with. Then add the fact that they ride a Kawasaki and more yet a 12, you are 90% there! BTW, I also do not drink or smoke  I still know good Beer and Burbon or Sotch when I smell it!) Next time (When the weather is a lot better and I am up in Ohio (Toledo) and decide to take a ride to my other cousin's house in St Joseph, I will let you and Angie know in advance so I can swing by and meet somewhere and you can see this Old man in the flesh!
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frEEk
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posted January 16, 2004 02:59 PM
vincent, i know that police (and general governmental/authority/management) attitude all too well, and it never ceases to make me sick. people just have such different ideas of what is important, and i think it's mostly cause hardly anyone ever does the "put urself in their shoes" routine. of course, u could argue that the people getting vandalized should put themselves in the authority figure's shoes, but inevitably when the same thing happens to said figure, they flip. get way more mad than the regular person. i guess apathy is a problem in the US too, even if it's not nearly of the epic proportions as in Canada.
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2004 04:53 PM
I am sorry to even think that Canada can compare with anything to do with the Police here in the US
OK! I have a much better Idea of what really happened at Lowes from the person herself. Now all I can say is My Cousin was dumb to do what she did and I really do not understand the people at the store now.
Here is what happened;
The store manager had called a meeting and everyone in the store was there. The were meeting at a place where there were some new Customer service counters. They are made out of something that is easily scratched and they were all covered with a Blue Plastic wrap. SHe was actually standing a few feet away from the store manager. Seems like toward the end of the meeting when a few questions are asked and answered, she cut a piect of plastic out of the cover in the shape of a "D". I do not know how big exactly, but get the feeling it was maybe and inch or so. When the meeting was over they started pulling the covers off of the counter tops and the "Manager" noticed that where she had cut ou the piece of plastic left a mark in the outline of the "D". (Very faint and small but able to be seen). She stated right then that she would get some polish and remove it (Like she has done and they all do to refinish these tops after a lot of customer usage), but at that time, the Manager said leave it alone.
The meeting broke up and everyone went back to work. The next day when she came in, she was told that she was Fired for destruction of company Property.
NBow that I know more, First, I am Pissed with my Cousin for doing something that Stupid because she knows better. She was raised to not even put your hand on a wall or even touch things when you are "Looking" at them. I also said that no matter what they said, she should have polished it out because it did not need to be there. Dumb Dumb DUMB!
Now saying that, if what she did was a problem, then why not right then fire her? Why not have her remove the scratch, right then and right there in front of the other employees or right after they left? I am now more confused than ever with her and the store Manager? What gets me now is the fact that she did something that stipid and the place she did it will be mucked up in a few minutes after the store opens anyway?
More! She went to the store today and asked for her discharge papers and her pay. They gave her neither. One thing I do know is that when you fire anyone, provided that they are not responsible for money, that you must pay them that day. Otherwise you will be fined 10% per day up to 100% until all money is paid. Stay tuned I will know more on Monday when the DM (District Manager, not Doug Meyer) returns
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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frEEk
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posted January 16, 2004 11:36 PM
geez, this jsut keeps gettin more and more fucked up! defintiley wanna hear what their reasoning is for not giving her her discharge papers or pay.
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MadMike
Moderator
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posted January 17, 2004 12:05 AM
I had something similar happen. it was really dumb this employee I had wrote "NO" on the door with an ink pen. this all happened while I was on vacation. first big problem, what the hell was she thinking!!!??? dumb! 2nd big problem!! She did not tell me!! Very Dumb! 3rd she did not have it cleaned off by time I got back!! I asked her and she admited to it and said she could not get it off of the door. so I proceeded to clean off a small amount with soft scrub and informed her it works fine and she needed to do it. she appoligized to me and said she was very stupid for being so careless with company property. I accepted and told her dont ever freaking do it again. and I let her know I was more pissed about her not telling me then it actually happening.
and Vince is that a washington law? here in iowa, you have untill the next pay period, unless they have any company property, and then it is 30 days. but I could be mistaken? but I am almost positive.
Well good luck, and they should not have fired her! for sure but I would have chewed her ass bad and given her an oral warning, well I hope she uses this as a learning experience.
Mad Mike
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VincentHill
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posted January 17, 2004 12:20 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 17 Jan 2004 12:22
MM, I am still in dis-belief that she would do something "THAT" stupid #1, and then Not Know to clean it up #2 Even more stupid and #3, I refer to #1 The worse part is if I saw some one doing something like that to begin with, I would not want them working for me! I know that "Young " People do not think, but this should not have even been a thought in her head. I hope that she gets her job back, because now I think the store manager may have overnight gotten Pissed off and then fired her after thinking how stupid can someone be?
MM, yes this is the law here in Washington. I think that they follow Federal guide lines. I will check into what Ohio Law is. They do not play around here with the employers. If you want to fire someone, then Pay them before you send them out of the door unless they have "Anything" to do with money.
Freek, Maybe the Manager is now afraid to put anything in writing until he also talks to the DM! I will keep you informed.
I now see how her mother wrote to me what she did. "Cutting out something for the customer on the counter" Have someone crying and change the words "On the" to the location of "For the" and you have it. Everything else stays the same. I cannot wait until Monday.
BTW, I need to say this, I appreciate the Board Family giving me a place to Vent and get other views. Nothing quite like this place! Thanks Fish!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
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posted January 21, 2004 04:33 PM
1/21/04 Update. She has "NOT" Gotten her job back. The DM knows about it and stated "I do not hve time right now while we are trying to get that store opened". I do not know if that means As soon as it is open, I will have time to look into it? My Cousin her Mother is trying to let her handle it, but we all know how hard that is. We also do not want to look like she cannot handle things herself, but we do not want them taken advantage of either! Tough place to be in! I will know more later.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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addisonzx12
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posted January 21, 2004 05:04 PM
Vincent,
I don't get it? How is it called DESTRUCTION of property, if it can be repaired? What ever happened to normal wear & tear? Was the counter destroyed & replaced or not! If it wasn't replaced, it was not destroyed! Shit, when you lease a new car, which costs a lot more than a countertop! When the time comes to return the car, & there is a scratch on it. If the leasing company/dealer told you the car is destroyed because of that scratch you'd look at him/her like they were nuts, right? It's not like she PURPOSELY tried to damage it right? I'd talk to a lawyer.
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MadMike
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posted January 21, 2004 08:40 PM
Hey Addison, dude she sat there and carved a D in the plastic while they were having a meeting, that "IS" destruction of property! she willingly and knowingly damaged a piece of company property. It dosent really matter if she could fix it or not? (hope you did not take that the wrong way vince). I tell you what I would not have fired her but I would have chewed her ass nice and severe and she would be scrubbing floors for about a month.
just because you can fix something doesent mean it was not done delibertly, so you take your company car and drive it through the front door of your company on purpous. Yea you got insurance but dude your going to be fired!
Mad Mike
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VincentHill
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posted January 22, 2004 09:54 AM
MM, You said it Mildly! It was all I could do when talking to her to not yell at her about this. I am not sure that I would not have fired he myself. Of course that is why I am not in business either because I have a total lack of patience. What she did was flat stupid and unthinking. She should have fixed it on her very next break and gone to the manager and apologized.
My plan is to hev her write a letter to the DM and state that she normally takes a pad of paper and pen to the meetings and takes notes and sometimes doodles. She did not have her paper with her this time and without thinking, doodled on the protective cover over the counter. She understands that this was not something anyone should do and even if they cannot forgive her, that she still wants to remove the mark she made.
If it was not for the fact that she lost her job, I myself would have been on her like white on rice. "I still cannot believe that she did it. I hope that she really understands just how bad it was and it had NOTHING to do with her quality of work or race."
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frEEk
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posted January 22, 2004 11:11 AM
personally i wouldnt get very upset about that at all. it was (i assume) just an absent minded mistake. if the person didnt do it maliciously, doesnt do the same thing repeatedly, and it isnt serious damage (which that sure wasnt), i would jsut give her a "what were u thinking?", have her fix it, and leave it at that. iv done some mighty stupid things at work absentmindedly (like handing a customer a $300 drop with his change when buying gas), and the owners were quite understanding, even before the guy brought it back. on the other hand, if u do things maliciously, or steal from the store (u know the old "i deserve more/they dont pay me enough/it wont hurt them), ur ass is fired pronto.
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bigju
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posted January 22, 2004 11:17 AM
Vince I hope things workout for her, and that she learns the lesson in this situation. Business is extreamly cut throat, and unless your defrauding the lower level employees (See Enron) of money and stock values your expendable. Its sad but true I actually had a bank president say firing employees is the price of doing business. Unless your in a high possesion you really have to watch what you do at work and sometimes after work as well.
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VincentHill
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posted January 22, 2004 01:25 PM
Thanks Freek and Bigju. I am at least 100+% sure it was not on purpose. Young people really can make some bonners. This comes under my Dad's teaching which she already knows, "Experience is always something you get immediately AFTER you need it"! She can now accept her PHD. I am also hoping that they give her a second chance. More Later.
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Marcos Peguero
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posted January 22, 2004 01:44 PM
I have learn a lot, reading this topic.
I have done a lot of stupid things in my work, and makes you think all of this.
Vincent, when a door closes a window is opened. Im shure she will be more carefull with the things
that she does, from now on.
To have a job is 70% work and 30% how you sell your work and caracter to others.
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VincentHill
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posted January 22, 2004 03:00 PM
Marcos, I have a different look at a job. You are paid 50% for what you do and 50% for what they put you through to get the job done (Average Job)
60% work and 40% Bull Good Job
70% work and 30% Bull You are looking toward Heaven
Above 80% and you are self employed and the Government with all of the rules and regulations make the 20% or less Bull
Marcos, you are really correct about one thing, I have never left a job and not ended up with a better one and usually a lot better one. The problem is, she is in Toledo Ohio! Remember when Bush met the President of Mexico in Toledo? They had anyone that could show us with the Latinos in the front. Toledo is so poor that even the migrant workers cannot live there. Toledo Scale left. Devilbiss (Spray guns etc) left. Champion Spark Plug Gone. Spicer Bearings Gone. As for the Glass Capitol, no glass (except for a few Glass blowers specialties shops are there. The wierd thing is Kaiser made the Jeep at Willis Overland. Chrysler is not making Jeeps (Where?) Willis Overland again! Getting a job in Toledo is worse than Detroit, Youngstown, even Flint Michigan or Benton Harbor Michigan (Otis knows about these places). I hope that it does not break her spirit!
Thanks for the good words Marcos
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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addisonzx12
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posted January 22, 2004 04:19 PM
Yo Guys, I must be missing something here! Did she, or did she not PURPOSELY damage the counter? My point is, it was a accident. All she knowingly & willingly did was cut the protective cover, NOT the countertop! Accidents happen! Now, if she was trying to damage the counter. That's different. But it sounds to me like it was a accident!
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VincentHill
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posted January 23, 2004 07:34 AM
Addison, You understand it from her viewpoint, which we all understand. The question the others were addressing was the store's view point.
No question that she did not intend to do damage and I have more information also.
The counter top was "Unfinished" wood! so a little light fine sanding and rubbing and it really would have been gone, no question.
The second thing that I now understand that really brings the store into question is, All of this happened about "Two weeks earlier" and she continued to work there for TWO WHOLE WEEKS and then after a day off, she went back to the store "AND Then she was fired"!.
I was under the assumption that this happened in a 24 hour period because she stated that "When she went back to work, she was fired". Not knowing that the "Back to work part" referred to after a day off? Now that I know the counter was unfinished wood and that some very light sanding and then a wax over really would have 100% repaired the counter as opposed to come type of composit ot metal.
Side note is she really is an artist and went to school for that and worked in placed where her job was drawing and designing rooms and other things. Add to this, that her mother is a serious doodler and just given a styrofoam cup will have it totally filled with flowers and people's faces, you can now get the picture. My suggestion about the note to the DM about taking a pad with her to meetings, believe it or not, was something she was really doing and this time did not have the pad. Sometimes truth is stranger than Fiction.
Last, they still refuse to give he a pink slip with the reason for her firing. I told her to file unemployment ans she stated that when we asked for the written reason for the firing so she could get unemployment, they stated that they had not decided wheather or not they were going to allow her to get unemployment! I really would like to look inside their heads. WIth this last information, I not understand her mother's statement, "I guess after that had gotten all of the work out of her they wanted, then they fired her"! This now rings a lot more truer.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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frEEk
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posted January 23, 2004 11:52 AM
sounds to me like it's time to take action against this idiots. at the beginning there may have been some merit in their actions but by now it's obvious that they're just being immature, confused, malicious idiots. i'd wanna see head office step in and fire those responsible, but if that don't work, it's time to have them fined by whatever labour department u have down there. this whoel spiel is patently rediculous.
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VincentHill
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posted January 23, 2004 01:14 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 23 Jan 2004 15:27
I do not think much more can be told about this. It now looks to me like what she did was really no biggie and the manager was OK with it. But someone somewhere higher up had to tell him to fire her. This would not be boiling for 2 whole weeks and then he finally got mad enough to fire her? Now knowing that the counter top was unfinished wood and would have been extremely easy to repair even makes me less upset about what she did. Now I am of the opinion of her mother. Once they had gotten all of the work out of her that they wanted, "See Ya, would not want to be Ya"
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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MadMike
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posted January 23, 2004 01:43 PM
Yep Vince, sounds like a total scam Job, work 2 weeks after and then fire her? Bull! I would go apply for unemployment and tell the state they would not give you a reason or a pink-slip? that will hopefully get the ball rolling for her! Good Luck! I wish her the best!
Mad Mike
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VincentHill
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posted January 23, 2004 03:31 PM
quote:
Yep Vince, sounds like a total scam Job, work 2 weeks after and then fire her? Bull! I would go apply for unemployment and tell the state they would not give you a reason or a pink-slip? that will hopefully get the ball rolling for her! Good Luck! I wish her the best!
Mad Mike
I think we are now all in agreement and I have a real good comfort level with what happened. I feel that even if the counter top had not been damaged, that it simply would have been something else, but it would have happened.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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