VincentHill
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posted January 15, 2004 10:27 AM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 21 Jan 2004 16:26
OT: My Cousin just got Fired, Update!
My Cousin Marian who I give cars and is a school teacher, has a daughter that works (I think) Lowes. She is extremely sharp in the work she does and is always sent to any store that is short or has an emergency. SHe was just reciently promoted and is doing well. Of course, when someone in upper management likes you, that means that there is usually someone a little lower down that hates you.
The deal is, she was fired for destruction of Property. SHe had to cut out something for a customer and cut it over a counter top and put cut marks into the top. SHe even offered to "Pay" for the tops replacement. The person that is really over her and just promoted her is in a conference today and will not be back until Monday. To me, this comes under the rule I have about most employers, "They do one thing best, Make bad employees out of Good ones" She really loved her job. Now even if she gets it back, she will never have the same good feelings and put out the kind of work she was doing before this happened.
For the benefit of Otis, (who I think will be an exception to the above phrase) I think in this case it just does not help that she is black. I think it is more to do with a possible "Power" Struggle and someone is using her to make a point against the upper manager that is in the conference!
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1BAD12R
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posted January 15, 2004 10:35 AM
Sorry bout that V. And they wonder why people go "postal".
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 15, 2004 10:43 AM
Damn.....
Vinny I hate to hear about ANYONE getting fired. It's a tough world and it can only be tougher when you're unemployed. But do you really think that the fact your cousin is black had a goddamned thing to do with her getting fired? Seriously,....I doubt that it did. This is 2004, not 1904.
I'm not saying there was a significant enough reason for her to be fired mind you. I just feel that the race card is played way too much. Without going into a big rant let's just say we hope the color of her skin had nothing to do with her getting the axe.
You know I'm not flaming you Vinny, just voicing my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. 
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
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Otis
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posted January 15, 2004 11:22 AM
Edited By: Otis on 15 Jan 2004 11:23
Vinnie I am very sorry to to hear about this, very sorry. A couple questions. What state does she work in? Is it an "at will" employment state? Has she suffered from any racial descrimination in the past? Is there a written policy in the employee handbook that she was given that prohibits destruction/defaming company property and if so what the penalties are? Has she ever been desciplined before and if so, for what reasons? has she kept every single one of her performance review copies? Has she ever had a bad performance review? How many other black people work at her store? I can't say if she was fired because she was black or if that hurt of helped her as I have no knowledge of the relationships she has with other employees, but in my experience I would have to say no. What I can tell you for sure is that she was not fired for the damage to the counter top, there definitely is an underlying reason, did she piss someone off that has the power or the influence to get her fired? See Vinnie while it may be easy from one perspective to blame these kind of things on race, most often it is something that was never even considered. Some of the times the reasons are valid and some times the reasons are bullshit. Let me give you an example where you can look at it both ways. I have strict rules on communicating with with patients, doctors, nurses anyone while working for me. The rule is simple, no slang. All I ask is that employees speak effectively and professionally while working for me. This gets discussed during interviews at great length. 98% of the time it is never a problem but there are a few who contunue to use slang in a professional setting. Our first action is counselling, again reminding them of our policies on commmunication and professional behavior. After the counselling session we have them sign a document stating that they understand the policy and why they were brought in for counselling. With the explicit understanding that if the behavior continues they will be terminated. Well, sure enough there are a few who still aren't interested in working under our policies and I have to fire them. Because of this I have been called a racist by these people. Does that makes me a racist? Hardly. But I can see why they may think so. My point is Vinnie that if she didn't actually break a company policy and truly was fired without cause, then she should seek legal representation for wrongful discharge. I just find it hard to believe that she was fired only because she was black, or only because she cut the countertop that she rightly offered to pay for. There has to be something else. Something either she is not telling you or she is unaware of. Please keep us informed of the final outcome.
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VincentHill
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posted January 15, 2004 01:35 PM
Otis and other friends, Like I said, when I posted I was fairly certain it was "NOT" being Black (Like I also said, it sometimes does not help either) but I have more information. It really comes under making bad employees out of good ones! You are also right that it was not the countertop, but everything below!
It seems that it is Lowes in Toledo Ohio on Airport Highway a new store. She worked for Home Depot before and was into the job. She knows how to operate the fork Lift mix paints, handle Glass work in the wood department, Plumming Hardware all of it! SHe has one of those Work Hard ethics. She also has a problem with people that do not work or want to work. Have I now set the tone?
The District Manager (The person that was out of town) that Loves her because she is always suggesting better faster easier ways of doing things and always getting awards for employee of the month and everything else. It has come to the point that she is always on the team that organizes the opening of new stores, which this is. They had an expert come in and the first thing this person did was ask questions about who could operate what. Of course she could operate everything, so everytime she raised her hand, the trainer would look around and say, well since no one knows how to operate this, we will send in this person. Turns out that there were three pieces of equipment she could operate very well and was ignored each time. I understand that the trainer meant, not enough know, but would give the cut of saying "No one"!
SHe is young and has not learned the "politics" of the work Place which to me, this is totally what this is about. She has yet to realize that a lot of people want a job, but do not want work! They want to know everything, but do nothing! I will be speaking to her tonight and explain the rules of the work place.
OK to make suggestions, but do not tell other workers because they do not want to know unless they ask.
Do not win employee of the month every month because it will Piss off everyone you work with.
Do not let others know that the District Manager and you are friends, this again will make her a target for everyone that does not like her or the District Manager.
Do you work and leave others to do their work "UNLESS THEY ASK FOR HELP"
It is just like the whistle Blowers in the Federal Government that told about the $1,600 Claw Hammers, $5,200 B-52 Toilet seats. The $900 light Bulbs. The man that becasue he blew a whistle was given exactly "NOTHING" to do every day and when he spoke about that, they tried to fire him for that also!
Otis, I do not know the exact Business you are in, but I am willing to bet that you do not stiffle your employees and encourage them to do things better, faster, easier, and cheaper. That you like it when one has time to help the slowers ones become faster! Problem, it you are not Big Business!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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VincentHill
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posted January 15, 2004 01:42 PM
I forgot to add, my gut feeling is, she will most likely be rehired on Monday when the DM returns and also most likely be put into another store. I think she is 23 or 24 years old. Welcome to the real world!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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frEEk
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posted January 15, 2004 03:49 PM
sorry to hear about the situation vince. it sounds liek ur right on about her being naive of politics, but the sad thing is u shoudlnt have to be. why someone who's a better, harder worker shoudl ahve to tone it down escapes me. if people feel bad that they're not workin as hard, then they should work harder. i'v had similar run-ins with employers twice, tho there were slight variations (for some reason no matter how hard i work, i still LOOK slow and lazy). i suspect u'r right about the outcome too. did the person who fired her even have the authority to do so? not a fun situation to be in regardless.
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MadMike
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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted January 15, 2004 04:06 PM
Sorry to hear that Vince and as I have told my friends and family that this has happened to, everything in life happens for a reason. maybe this is just a short learning experience? or maybe this is a life change. and sometimes the politics of Business, just plain sucks! I agree with you there are way to many people who want to be paid but do not want to do anything about the work part. Luckly I am blessed mostly with the hard workers. It really sounds like this is much deeper. has she had problems with breaking items or damaging property before? how many times has she been warned? I truely believe this will work out for her, if she returns or finds another place to take advantage of her talents! and just between you and I God will never throw more at you then you can actually handle. She is Lucky to have an Uncle like you to help her out!
Otis, first off I hope you dont take this the wrong way. but you actually will fire a Hard working person, because they use the words "cool" and "man" and "dude", Instead of saying "great" "John" "Sir". if so that is truely sad! I know better then to call the President of the company "dude" but I will tell him how "cool" it is to work for this company, or "oh man we will be able to sell so many of those items".... etc... I do not know if you are older then I or not. but I have learned a very valuable lesson to look at what you need from your employees, and how hard/good of workers they are. that statement sounds like one of my former employers telling me I have to talk "down to their level"(production workers) where I informed Her(the owners wife) that these were people not animal's and I will talk to them just like I would talk to her or anyone else for that matter. Point being I feel I am not better then anyone else nor anyone else better then myself. I may know more then someone of many things but that same person is going to know alot more then I in other areas. I just hope you not loosing great employee's because of the way they speak.
and Vince tell her good luck!! she will do fine!
Mad Mike
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 15, 2004 06:07 PM
Cool....
Mike I knew you were a cool guy from what freek's gay brother Harry told me.  But that last post lets me know even more. Very well put my man.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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redelk
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posted January 16, 2004 12:29 AM
Otis would have to fire me in the first 15 minutes. Just can't control my slang that well.
Well, it's 2:30 am. I guess I'll leave work now and go home.
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harryzx-12
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posted January 16, 2004 03:05 AM
I'd be fired from otis's company after about 15 minutes or so employment.I have at one time or another told most of the managers to go fuck themselves when the start telling me to do stupid shit that I know better not to do. My job in part involves repairing,manufacturing critical acft parts that thousands of peoples lives depend on the quality of my work.I will not take shortcuts. I am human and have made mistakes, These go to the scrap man not on an acft.
My greeting to most people where I work is usually  . They know I'm usually joking and take it that way.
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Otis
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posted January 16, 2004 04:23 AM
Harry, you crack me up. I could never fire you cause I'd be laughing too damn hard all the time. LMAO
Seriously though, there is place for screwing around and a place for professionalism. My point is if you are unable to distiguish between the two, you can't work here.
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It's a free country brother
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 16, 2004 04:29 AM
Nazi Bastard.............
Otis, I think I need to revise your company's employment policy.
Step One: All managers remove stick from ass.
That should make things better............. LMFAO!!!!
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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Otis
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Captain Kickstand
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posted January 16, 2004 04:47 AM
DUDE! I do not have a stick up my ass, I just know what needs to be done to make money. Bastage!
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MadMike
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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted January 16, 2004 04:59 AM
LMFAO....
Redelk, dude yea but you been surfing porn for the last 6 hours.........
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 16, 2004 06:45 AM
Yes you do.........
quote:
DUDE! I do not have a stick up my ass, I just know what needs to be done to make money. Bastage!
Makin' money might make you endure a few ASS WHOOPINS where I come from you fuckin' "Motown Ass Sewn So Tight You Can't Fart MF" !!!!!! Love ya, mean it.........
I know what you mean though............
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2004 07:38 AM
Otis, You know I appreciated the "Time" you spent to give sme "Sage" advice because I could not disagree with anything. Someone asked if she had been warned. SHe has never been warned about anything. It is usually praise she receives or nothing.
MM, Your Mother and Father "N" Law must know that their Daughter just plain could not have found a better "Person" Out there. Better looking of course she could, More money, easy to do also, but the "MAN" Just cannot be beat! I read and understood exactly what you said and meant. I cannot wait until the DM gets back to see exactly what happens. I still hate it that (Like HDL said), she is going to need to tone it down and ease up on her work. As soon as I hear you will hear! Thanks for all of the comments because they are along the same things I am thinking and as a lot of you know, my thinking is not always in the Box!
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redelk
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posted January 16, 2004 08:19 AM
I agree with Rick. "stick up ass" does not equal "professionalism"
Mike, since we got DSL, I usually can't last more than 15 minutes surfin' "adult oriented" site before I... well, you know.... "finish".
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 16, 2004 08:49 AM
LMFAO!!!
quote:
Mike, since we got DSL, I usually can't last more than 15 minutes surfin' "adult oriented" site before I... well, you know.... "finish".
Even though it's more info than I needed to know, I just about spewed coffee when I read that. You crazy bastard....... that is some funny shit.
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What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2004 10:05 AM
quote:
DUDE! I do not have a stick up my ass, I just know what needs to be done to make money. Bastage!
Otis, correct me if I missed something, but from what I read, you do not have "Any" problem with how people talk or even what they say, So long as it is not on you Dime! When you are paying the Piper, you can call the tune. When they are on that phone calling on your customers, they represent "You" and you know exactly how you want to be represented. If they know that something works better, you have no chains on their dest to stop them from leaving and going into business and showing you exactly how it is done? Correct?
Speaking of Speech, there was (maybe still is, a company in Texas that takes Ghetto raised adults and teaches them "English" as a second language. The head of the school cannot fill all of the request he receives for graduates. The lowest person on the corporate staff, the person that answers the phone is the most important person in the organization. You never get a second chance to make a first impression
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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bigju
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posted January 16, 2004 10:17 AM
Vince I have seen good employees turn to dogs many times because of management. With us "police officers" in my city its "what have you done for me lately" I have seen the "I'll promote my stupid son who has no time on the job" and the "I'm fucking this young chick so I'll promote her" destroy the work ethic of outstanding cops. Hell they just did it to a friend of mine, 15 years on the job, finally got assigned to a specialized unit and was returned to patrol 2 days later. This is done to one of the city leaders in search warrants. Now he is the leader of the lock up, to quote him "5 more years and I'm gone!" I hope your cousin gets her job back and stays there long enough to find a better job and tell Lows to go to hell!
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Otis
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posted January 16, 2004 11:23 AM
quote:
quote:
DUDE! I do not have a stick up my ass, I just know what needs to be done to make money. Bastage!
Otis, correct me if I missed something, but from what I read, you do not have "Any" problem with how people talk or even what they say, So long as it is not on you Dime! When you are paying the Piper, you can call the tune. When they are on that phone calling on your customers, they represent "You" and you know exactly how you want to be represented. If they know that something works better, you have no chains on their dest to stop them from leaving and going into business and showing you exactly how it is done? Correct?
I'm a little confused at to what your inquiring about here Vinnie. While I believe this is a free country and you certainly can speak however you want, I don't believe in butchering the english launguage. Example, I think it was last year and I was clicking through channels and happened upon one of those sactimonious music award shows. They had juat announced Alicia Keys as the winner of best new artist or something for that song Fallen, well I kept it on to hear her speech and mind you I think she has a beatiful voice, well when she starting talking my mouth dropped. She speaks trash, I was embarrassed for her. She obviously knows how to speak english as her songs are that way but as far as just talking? Forget it. I turned her off and lost respect for her.
You are right in saying that when I am paying the person, I call the tune, no if's and's or butts. If a person is not interested in working under my guidlines then they are more than welcome to head on out and find a new job. Again, it is a free country.
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It's a free country brother
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necro
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posted January 16, 2004 11:48 AM
Have her contact the local TV station.
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2004 12:45 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 16 Jan 2004 12:51
No confusion here, we are in complete agreement on everything you said. Scary isn't it! My mother was an English teacher and I got into fights because of the way I spoke / speak. They called it Proper talk. My Mon said that it is either proper or improper! You almost used the exact words I use "Butcher the language"! The worse part is some of the teachers speak worse than the students. So if there is no example, how can they learn??
If they do not rehire here on Monday when the DM returns, We will be talking and looking at everything. Toledo is so messed up, that when you call the police, they will tell you that vandalism is nothing they have time for. Breaking into you house or car is a close second. If you keep calling, they will come out there and arrest you. "After all, they are there to fight "Real" crime! The real crime is the Police attitude. No one can have anything nice anymore. We will all know more Monday and I hope the DM does right by her. Be nice if she was put over the person that fired her! The problem is she is too young and not enough education for that.
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Otis
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posted January 16, 2004 12:51 PM
Scary it is! LOL. In the end Vinnie even though you and I disagree on many things I'm sure we'd share a beer and laugh if we met. Please let us know what happens with your cousin on Monday.
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It's a free country brother
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