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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: The top speed war NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
frEEk


Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9650
posted May 22, 2018 04:05 PM        
The top speed war

Buddy does a pretty entertaining job of presenting the war in full.




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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted June 14, 2018 04:57 PM        
Nice, but I would liked more if it has shown the original C-model ZX11. Also Busa videos were from the later model, not the original. In the end it was the original models that gave the reputation. Also up to this date I don't remember actually any proof that the '00ZX12 was restricted despite all the speculation..
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fish_antlers


Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21764
posted June 14, 2018 11:43 PM        
The 00 wasn't restricted. 01 was as best as I can remember (I had an 00)
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shiphteey


Needs a job
Posts: 2520
posted July 06, 2018 02:42 AM        
They weren't restricted in the electronic speed limiter sense.

But to go from 180 to 190 mph with just a full exhaust tells you something.

And the original design was supposed to spin pretty high, look at the lame ass low stock rpm rev limiter.

They were supposed to be Busa Beaters and instead just kinda sorta ran around the same speed. Now put heavy riders who can't tuck and short shift. Busa wins. The rest is history. Kawasaki should have never pulled their punch in 2000.
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rotts4u


Novice Class
Posts: 95
posted July 09, 2018 09:53 AM        
Listen to Shipteeny, he did more land speed racing on a ZX-12 than anyone I can think of back in the day.
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rotts4u


Novice Class
Posts: 95
posted July 09, 2018 10:08 AM        
Great videos. As a 55 year old I lived through most of those years even though some of my good friends didn't. A big part of our lives was spent chasing the demon of top speed. I am glad to have been there, but I would not want to go back. Thanks again for whoever made those. It brought back a lot of memories
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psycho1122


Pro
Posts: 1600
posted July 27, 2018 12:15 AM        
quote:
They weren't restricted in the electronic speed limiter sense.

But to go from 180 to 190 mph with just a full exhaust tells you something.

And the original design was supposed to spin pretty high, look at the lame ass low stock rpm rev limiter.

They were supposed to be Busa Beaters and instead just kinda sorta ran around the same speed. Now put heavy riders who can't tuck and short shift. Busa wins. The rest is history. Kawasaki should have never pulled their punch in 2000.


Very True shiphteey.......

Back in early May of 2000, I had Paul Dean from Cycle World come out with his radar gun and we did some early Sunday morning top secret testing in the lower AZ desert. My 00' STOCK went 180 mph in 5th gear. Came back around and went past the gun at 183.5 mph in 6th. What gives? BOTH runs showed 11,000 RPM on the tach. NEVER hit rev. limiter in either gear. (Dyno testing showed that the 11K rpm was really 10,300 rpm.....> right at the stock peak power level of 155 H.P.) Well, what gave was peak power came at an RPM that was too low, and not enough of it. KHI put a cork on the bikes (exhaust) and over filled them with oil during the 6 week delay in releasing it.

Enter Doug Meyer, his testing at Maxton revealed some interesting numbers! Hit the low 190's stock and just missed 200 by less than a tenth. I spoke with Doug about his experience and he offered to send me his exact Muzzy full pipe and the map that he used.

Once again, with a full compliment of friends to assist and a repeat visit from Paul, we re-tested in early May of 2001. With only an exhaust change and a map to compliment it, my 00' was re-dynoed on the same dyno and the engine produced 173 h.p. at a true 11,500 rpm. It also exceeded the 155 at 10,300 rpm. The engine picked up a real world 25+ h.p. at 11,500 since the stock exhaust fell off heavily after 10,300 rpm.

The result?!? Radar testing showed 196 mph on multiple passes without hitting the limiter in 6th. Why not 200? After some overnight storms and a DA over 2000' in addition to relatively low oxygen levels in the desert (lack of trees) and the fact that I am not a small jockey (6'1" / 225 with leathers) or an experienced rider like Doug, I just could not squeek out a few more MPH. That is just the way it goes. However, picking up nearly 13 mph from just a pipe and map was impressive. Just think how the world would be different if KHI let em' go uncorked. Good god!

Talking more in depth with Doug revealed that if you could COMPLETELY seal up the Ram-Air system (it leaks alot), 200 would be an easier # to obtain in the right conditions. I would just love to re-run the bike now with my 1270 piston kit and sealed ram system

Cheers!


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TurboBlew


Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4583
posted August 03, 2018 01:29 AM        
some liberties taken.

no mention of big K recalling and dismantling some 00s early on?
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shiphteey


Needs a job
Posts: 2520
posted August 03, 2018 05:41 AM        
psycho...183 to 196 is the exact same gain I got:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbAgaX58fO4
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KZScott


Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7221
posted August 04, 2018 01:53 AM        
I havent tested a completely stock pipe vs a muzzy, but the regular street muzzy wasnt much of a gain over a gutted stock pipe with a slip on. i would assume the cat and stock muffler would hurt performance some and that was likely the main mph changer. the muzzy pro pipe however was a massive gain. these tests were on my stock motor bike with my ecu flash. gutted stocker/slip on was 175hp, muzzy street was 179hp and the muzzy pro pipe was 186hp
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos

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dougmeyer


Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2709
posted August 08, 2018 01:54 AM        
Hi all,
What a coincidence I should tune in today. I was moving my green A1 around in the garage yesterday and tipped it over (had nudged the stand back and didn't notice) so I thought I'd log in and see if anyone had a cherry gen cover and a left hand mirror.

The bike I have is one of the three that we got from Kawasaki to do the Maxton runs. We did the runs with a red one. They were all within a couple hp so it didn't really matter, but the red one was the highest (no, I don't remember the number. ) I bought it from Rob when we finished the Maxton deal.
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supra5677


Pro
Posts: 1277
posted August 09, 2018 11:47 AM        
He made a MISTAKE about the ZX11. The zx11 ran 186 mph on the test track. See here.. 299kph. That is a ZX11 C model.

supra

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR_Ywe-OFcE

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supra5677


Pro
Posts: 1277
posted August 09, 2018 11:56 AM        
Also if you look at the "hacking the planet" thread you can see the ignition in the ECU begins to retard timing up into the red limiter. Also the speed density map (ram air) goes up to 12,349 whereas the ignition rev stops at 11, 625.

Then you have the no closed loop tuning to keep the air fuel ratio at optimum levels. It could with a pc5 and 02 sensor. Then certain areas of the ram air system leaks. Little ECU tuning, ignition, rev limit, and seal up the ram air I think the bike would do a true 198 mph even with stock exhaust.

supra

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FlaminRoo


Novice Class
Posts: 76
posted August 10, 2018 07:09 AM        
At the 2017 DLRA event on Lake Gairdner(salt) we ran Sam Petersens 00 to 204mph, 1286cc, stock pipe and can, pcV,, I built the motor and know that there is still more in it as she was only at 11000rpm,,
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shiphteey


Needs a job
Posts: 2520
posted August 24, 2018 10:22 PM        
Supra....I know the 12R is an amazing machine...

But the stock exhaust is so restrictive I can't see how you'd go from low 180s to high 190s with just ecu/ignition/fuel tuning. I know they left a bit on the table. But the projected RWHP you're talking you'd have to gain to go from low 180s to high 190 is is well over the 24 or so RWHP gain you get just from the exhaust.

Holding all other variables constant I just don't see it. Not saying it can't be done, slammed to the ground, race gas, light tailwind blah blah 1.5 mile etc etc but I just don't see 198 mph out of a bone stock exhaust and bone stock motor n/a.
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