HOME ARTICLES JOIN GALLERY STORE SPONSORS MARKETPLACE CONTACT US  
Register | FAQ | Search | Memberlist
Username:    Password:       Forgot your password?
BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Air shifting problems NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 08:22 AM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 8 Jul 2012 16:29
Air shifting problems

Last night test and tune i missed 4 shifts out of 6 runs ... Last time out the bike missed no shifts .. Back when i first got the air shifter installed i was missing a lot of shifts .. I was running 120 to 125 psi ... I bumped the PSI up to 145 to 150 and the problem seemed to be fixed .. Last nite i was at 155 PSI and miss shifting .. I want to blame it on poor track prep but i don't think that is the problem ... I tested it at my shop by putting my foot on the shifter , holding the shift lever down with my weight as to not bend a shift fork and hit the button .. It just doesn't push up with any real force on my foot .. It feels very weak compaired to my old ZX14 air shifter set up ... It also doesn't hold even with the button held on like my old ZX14 did ... I wonder if i have a bad air shift valve ? My co2 bottle had 1000 PSI so it's got pleanty of pressure .. I have a lot of kill time in the box so i'm ruling that out ... I'm going take the hole system apart and see if i can find where the problem is ..

I also have a problem with the trans , I think ? I do my burn outs in first gear at about 6000 to 6500 .. Twice last night after my burn out i pulled up to the line and i looked at my dash and it showed it was in 2 gear ... I had to put it back into first before i staged ... I never felt it shift to second gear in the burn out but sure as shit it was in second gear ...

Something else is going on also ... I have one hell of a time finding neutral ... I can shift the bike standing still from first to second , Kawis neutral doesn't let you do this... I can shift to first to second and back to first not moving ... I wonder if my neutral finder has gone bad or i have a bent fork or bad or loose shift star.. It's strange because i have never had these kind of problems with a zx14 ..

Anybody got any ideas ?
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
chromedout12r


Expert Class
Posts: 144
posted July 08, 2012 08:41 AM        
I have the same issue and so does my friend with finding nuetral. I also have the same issue with showing in 2nd gear when the bike is in first.

  Ignore this member   
Shane661


Needs a life
Posts: 11491
posted July 08, 2012 08:47 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Jul 2012 16:49
Did you change out the solenoid or ram Lee? But the fact you can shift up to 2nd standing still indicates to me that there is something going on outside of that. Those are just little metal balls that slide in/out based on centrigual force. Maybe the shaft is burred up, I was told by R&D that this can happen.

Also, on my gen 1 I always missed 2-3 footshifting, but the airshifter "fixed" it. R&D told me I probably just smashed the burrs on the shaft. He said he has had them burred up so bad he couldn't get the gears off.

I'm no trans expert, but that's what I know...

Shane

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 08:48 AM        
quote:
I have the same issue and so does my friend with finding nuetral. I also have the same issue with showing in 2nd gear when the bike is in first.

Mine is in second , not just showing second in the dash ... I tested it after the burn out when i it read second on the dash and it was really in second gear .I had to put it back in first and felt it klunk when it did .... It's a very strange feeling..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
kawasakijockey


Pro
Posts: 1876
posted July 08, 2012 09:05 AM        
What shift box you got there Lee?
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost

  Ignore this member   
1badzx12r


Needs a life
Posts: 8321
posted July 08, 2012 09:58 AM        Edited By: 1badzx12r on 8 Jul 2012 17:59
if you not getting pressure on the ram its either a dirty screen (if using) or the air exhaust port valve is part closed ....thats what the 4 little holes on the bottom of the sileniod turns..

the 2nd gear shift could be your auto shift causing it..or you rev it to high on the burn out...

the neutral finder not working ..thats a issue ..like shane said theirs 3 little balls working that part .. and the only way it don't work is if them balls are gone or blocked from working ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

  Ignore this member   
Big_T112


Pro
Posts: 1060
posted July 08, 2012 12:20 PM        
Do you let off the brake and roll out doing a burnout? You could be simply flashing the autoshift while doing your burnout. If it is not shifting I would look at tire spin. that's a shift killer everytime. You need to check your componets and clean them at the minimum. You could have a small bend in a fork. Hard to say without looking at it. I sent my 07 14 trans off and had all the gears undercut. Mine would not shift into fourth for nothing under heavy load. Up the kill time to, It needs to be changed for track conditions. Does it footshift OK?
  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 12:50 PM        
quote:
What shift box you got there Lee?
MPS auto kill box .
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 01:10 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 8 Jul 2012 21:43
quote:
if you not getting pressure on the ram its either a dirty screen (if using) or the air exhaust port valve is part closed ....thats what the 4 little holes on the bottom of the sileniod turns..

the 2nd gear shift could be your auto shift causing it..or you rev it to high on the burn out...

the neutral finder not working ..thats a issue ..like shane said theirs 3 little balls working that part .. and the only way it don't work is if them balls are gone or blocked from working ..
I have new valve i got from grainger that i,m going to try .. The one on the bike is a little tiny thing that came with that junk kill box and shifter .. That is the only part left from that crappy kit i have , it could be the problem .. No way should i need 155 psi to shift this bike ..

I don't think i'm over rev in the burn out , i watch the tach pretty close, But i will say it is possible.. I wonder if the auto kill box is just misfiring in the burn out ? I guess the best thing to do is remove the chip and see if it still does it ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 01:27 PM        
quote:
Do you let off the brake and roll out doing a burnout? You could be simply flashing the autoshift while doing your burnout. If it is not shifting I would look at tire spin. that's a shift killer everytime. You need to check your componets and clean them at the minimum. You could have a small bend in a fork. Hard to say without looking at it. I sent my 07 14 trans off and had all the gears undercut. Mine would not shift into fourth for nothing under heavy load. Up the kill time to, It needs to be changed for track conditions. Does it footshift OK?
yes i do roll out on the burn out but not at 11200 where my auto shift is set at .. I felt part of the problem could have been spinning ..My other zx14 would shift spinning but i had it on a button and not a auto shift ...I remember chad had this problem with his auto shift and he removed the chip and used his button and it was ok after that . That is something i'm going to test .. As far as foot shifting it feels fine, slower but fine ..lol
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
1badzx12r


Needs a life
Posts: 8321
posted July 08, 2012 01:29 PM        
i know i've made mine shift on the burn out before ..i've also made mine shift 3 times on a launch and didn't move 6 inches ..


____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 01:40 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 8 Jul 2012 23:12
quote:
i know i've made mine shift on the burn out before ..i've also made mine shift 3 times on a launch and didn't move 6 inches ..


hummm well i guess i should pull the chip and see if the problem goes away then .. My other zx14s i just used the MPS box without auto shift and never had this problem .. Would i be wrong to think if i just remove the chip the box would just be a normal kill box that MPS sells ? Thanks 1bad .. i would hate to waste more money on another kill box if i don't need to ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
1badzx12r


Needs a life
Posts: 8321
posted July 08, 2012 02:35 PM        
quote:
Would i be wrong to think if i just remove the chip the box would just be a normal kill box that MPS sells ?



you are correct .. no chip no auto shift.. you can button shift anytime chip or no chip ..
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI

  Ignore this member   
RICH CRAFT 1


Zone Head
Posts: 680
posted July 08, 2012 02:58 PM        
Lee,I would still be suspect of the track. I can't tell you how many times I left the track thinking there was something wrong with my shifter then go and ride it on the street and it shift just fine.hard to believe the bike would shift better on the street Then at the track. this time a year the tracks get really bad. I noticed the NHRA event this weekend in qualifying, a lot of the big horsepower cars could not make it down the track. And that is on a track that's well prepped. I'm not saying there could be something wrong with your air valve.I'm not sure about the button. It sends a constant ground to the box as long as you're holding the button down. I use mine sometimes red light to red light,but always use the auto shift at the track.we have 2-14 that we race,and I have had some transmission gears go bad, but I have never seen a Bent shift Fork.

Ken
____________
Red 06 ZX14 RR

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 03:11 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 9 Jul 2012 01:37
quote:
Lee,I would still be suspect of the track. I can't tell you how many times I left the track thinking there was something wrong with my shifter then go and ride it on the street and it shift just fine.hard to believe the bike would shift better on the street Then at the track. this time a year the tracks get really bad. I noticed the NHRA event this weekend in qualifying, a lot of the big horsepower cars could not make it down the track. And that is on a track that's well prepped. I'm not saying there could be something wrong with your air valve.I'm not sure about the button. It sends a constant ground to the box as long as you're holding the button down. I use mine sometimes red light to red light,but always use the auto shift at the track.we have 2-14 that we race,and I have had some transmission gears go bad, but I have never seen a Bent shift Fork.

Ken
Thanks Ken .. Al the shifters that i have had before you could hold the button and the ram would stay out till you let off the button .. This one doesn't .. Hit the button the ram moves ( not strongly ) and starts venting ASAP and releases the ram even if you keep the button pressed.. If i were to set one of my old shifters at 155 psi it would break your foot ,, With all my weight i couldn't keep it from moving up some .. This one i can hold down and hit the button and get no up movement .. It just feels weak...

I'm going down to the shop and get a picture of this air valve and one of the Grainer air valves .. You can clearly see it much smaller ..I don't know if this a problem or not but i would think in this case bigger would be better ..

____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
Newf14


Zone Head
2007 ZX1400
Posts: 562
posted July 08, 2012 03:26 PM        
I run 130/140 psi on mine with the pressure switch that turns on the compressor at 120psi no trouble I have all MPS air shifter gear. Dont use the auto shift though, I do my burnout in second usually no issues with jumping out of gear..... BTW gen1 ZX14. I think you will figure it out smokinZX14.

Newf14

  Ignore this member    Click here to visit Newf14's homepage. 
RICH CRAFT 1


Zone Head
Posts: 680
posted July 08, 2012 04:30 PM        
Lee, here's some things I would try, hold the shifter with your hand, shift it like you were going down the track. Watch the gauge see if it's returning ever time to the desired pressure. That should rule out the pressure regulator,check all the lines to see if there's any kinks in the line especially where it goes through the motor area, check the exhaust valve on the shifter valve to see if it's leaking, they usually start having a problem there.I guess it's possible that the RAM could have lost its seal, not likely. if all fails, I would replace the air valve, they are cheap and it never hurts to have a extra.

Ken
____________
Red 06 ZX14 RR

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 04:59 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 9 Jul 2012 01:02
quote:
Lee, here's some things I would try, hold the shifter with your hand, shift it like you were going down the track. Watch the gauge see if it's returning ever time to the desired pressure. That should rule out the pressure regulator,check all the lines to see if there's any kinks in the line especially where it goes through the motor area, check the exhaust valve on the shifter valve to see if it's leaking, they usually start having a problem there.I guess it's possible that the RAM could have lost its seal, not likely. if all fails, I would replace the air valve, they are cheap and it never hurts to have a extra.

Ken
The regulator is new and works great .. No leaks ( system holds PSI for days ) when i forget to turn it off .. No kinks .. No leaks .

I tried to upload a picture of the little air switching valve i'm using but my photo bucket would not let me .. Anyway it's half the size of the grainer unit .. The grainer unit is what most all air shifter kits use .. I removed both of them and took a battery and touched the wires to the battery , the little one i'm using now you can hardly hardly it click or feel it when in your hand ... Now the grainer unit you can hear it click from the other side of my shop ...Place it in you hand and you can feel it hit hard when power is put to it ... Big difference between to two of them ..

So i'm going to swap out the air switching valve and start there .. I didn't like to look of the little air switching valve when i got it with the kit so i picked up the larger air valve just in case ...

As for the ram it holds air fine , doesn't leak off any air and moves freely ..

This is not my first rodeo with air shifters .. I have install 100s of them with little or no problems ..But this one is kicking my ass for some reason .. The only thing in the system that has not been replace is the air switching valve , so i'll start there ..

I have used air shifters with a small air pump and tank and only used 120 PSI and worked great .. Changed to C02 or NOS systems and ran them at 120 to 125 and no problems .. Having to use 145 to 155 to get this one to work just doesn't seem right .. And now 155 to 160 it's still not working right ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
Quarter Pounder


Pro
with Cheese
Posts: 1067
posted July 08, 2012 05:00 PM        
I ran my shifter at 120 psi and it never missed a beat.

If your ram is leaking down, you may have a leak somewhere in the air lines or the ram itself. It should not bleed down.
____________
SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 05:07 PM        
quote:
I ran my shifter at 120 psi and it never missed a beat.

If your ram is leaking down, you may have a leak somewhere in the air lines or the ram itself. It should not bleed down.
Ram is holding high pressure fine .. No leaks and moves freely .. Like i said above i have forgot and left the air bottle on for days and it holds PSI not problem .. Can't have any leaks at least up to the air switching valve .. The line to the ram is only 5 inches or less with no leaks .. Doesn't leave much to have a problem with other that the air switching Valve or my trans ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 05:36 PM        
Got it .. Picture of the small air switching valve Vs the larger one ..


____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 05:39 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 9 Jul 2012 01:41
Here is a picture of the HD regulator i'm using ..Carolina Cycle - Hi Pressure Adjustable Regulator


____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
Quarter Pounder


Pro
with Cheese
Posts: 1067
posted July 08, 2012 05:55 PM        
the elec/air valve on the right is what came with my cycle-tek set up. Worked like a champ. Has a small red button on top to relieve pressure correct?


____________
SWB 2008 ZX-14
9.19 @ 151
5.98 @ 123
1.53 60'

  Ignore this member   
kawasakijockey


Pro
Posts: 1876
posted July 08, 2012 05:57 PM        
The one on the left is a MAC brand valve. They are notorious for coil and piston problems. I should know because I have changed hundreds of them.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost

  Ignore this member   
smokinZX14


Needs a life
Posts: 10197
posted July 08, 2012 06:02 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 9 Jul 2012 02:07
quote:
the elec/air valve on the right is what came with my cycle-tek set up. Worked like a champ. Has a small red button on top to relieve pressure correct?


My cycle tek came with the on left , Hummmmm.... Yes the red button lets off the pressure ... The one on the right is the one i have used in the past with no problems ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95

  Ignore this member   
All times are America/Va [ This thread is 3 pages long: 1  2  3     Next» ] < Previous Thread     Next Thread >
Quick Reply:

Email Notification: Send all replies to your email address.
BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Air shifting problems NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY

FEATURED NEWS   Bikeland News RSS Feed

HEADLINES   Bikeland News RSS Feed


Copyright 2000-2014 Bikeland Media
Please refer to our terms of service for further information
0.750301122665 seconds processing time