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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: 2012 zx14 dyno question. NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Thread: 2012 zx14 dyno question. [ This thread is 2 pages long: 1  2     Next» ]
mma-tv


Expert Class
Posts: 145
posted May 26, 2012 11:29 PM        
2012 zx14 dyno question.

Took my bike to a dealership open house for the dyno shoot out just to get some free dyno numbers. The techs seemed to know what they were doing with the 30 bikes before they got to mine, but we're stumped by the new 14. They spent 30 minutes testing each wire on the ECU plug for tach signal with no success. They even had the service manual out and still nothing. They wanted to start removing plastic to find a tach signal and I told them no way, I didn't want scratches and broken clips that come with plastic removal.

So my question is are they just dumbasses or is it really that hard to find a tach signal under the seat?

BTW, new vmax made 164 hp.

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GixxerJohn


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2012 zx14R SE
Posts: 537
posted May 27, 2012 09:03 AM        Edited By: GixxerJohn on 27 May 2012 16:04
WTF. they dont need to hook up anything for a dyno pull. I dynoed all my bikes,hell my new 14 has been on the dyno 3 times,strap it and go????
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Wheelie


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Old Man
Posts: 6902
posted May 27, 2012 09:06 AM        
quote:
WTF. they dont need to hook up anything for a dyno pull. I dynoed all my bikes,hell my new 14 has been on the dyno 3 times,strap it and go????
tell me you didn't just say that.

wee

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Wheelie


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Old Man
Posts: 6902
posted May 27, 2012 09:07 AM        
quote:
Took my bike to a dealership open house for the dyno shoot out just to get some free dyno numbers. The techs seemed to know what they were doing with the 30 bikes before they got to mine, but we're stumped by the new 14. They spent 30 minutes testing each wire on the ECU plug for tach signal with no success. They even had the service manual out and still nothing. They wanted to start removing plastic to find a tach signal and I told them no way, I didn't want scratches and broken clips that come with plastic removal.

So my question is are they just dumbasses or is it really that hard to find a tach signal under the seat?

BTW, new vmax made 164 hp.
my dyno guy had a time finding it, it's under the seat

wee

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GixxerJohn


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2012 zx14R SE
Posts: 537
posted May 27, 2012 09:08 AM        Edited By: GixxerJohn on 27 May 2012 16:10
I never had mine hook up to the computer and it ran fine all 3 times. So tell me i'm wrong genius. I guess the guy pulled 201hp on my bike by magic. Maybe a different dyno?? I even took a video of it on my phone,no hook up at all,just strapped it down,warmed it up a few pulls and bam done.
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mma-tv


Expert Class
Posts: 145
posted May 27, 2012 09:13 AM        
Don't they need rpm to calculate power? Hp is a function of torque and rpm, correct?
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Wheelie


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Old Man
Posts: 6902
posted May 27, 2012 09:17 AM        
quote:
Don't they need rpm to calculate power? Hp is a function of torque and rpm, correct?
not according to gixxerjohn.

wee

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1badzx12r


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posted May 27, 2012 09:26 AM        
quote:
On modern day dynamometers horsepower is a calculated value. It's important to remember the dyno measures torque and rpm and then from these calculates horsepower



http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer/torque_vs_horsepower.html




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Shane661


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posted May 27, 2012 09:31 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 27 May 2012 16:31
A Dynojet dyno can calcuate hp without an rpm pickup, but not torque. I believe it does this by looking at the acceleration rate of the drum and factoring the drum weight...but I am sure someone else can add to this.

Shane

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GixxerJohn


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2012 zx14R SE
Posts: 537
posted May 27, 2012 09:38 AM        
Hey ive only used 3 dynos in my life and never had it hooked up,and i got hp and tq ratings on both. And they are inline with everyone eles.And one of them was rickey gadson dynoing my gsxr1000 at his shop.
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Shane661


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posted May 27, 2012 09:46 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 27 May 2012 16:54
quote:
Hey ive only used 3 dynos in my life and never had it hooked up,and i got hp and tq ratings on both. And they are inline with everyone eles.And one of them was rickey gadson dynoing my gsxr1000 at his shop.


So, you never had a dyno chart that showed engine rpm, in your life?

Is that what you are saying? Try one with an rpm reading, it is really helpful for performance info...

Shane

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1badzx12r


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posted May 27, 2012 09:48 AM        
quote:
A Dynojet dyno can calcuate hp without an rpm pickup, but not torque. I believe it does this by looking at the acceleration rate of the drum and factoring the drum weight
Shane




i beat that works about as good as the top speed feature
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Shane661


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posted May 27, 2012 09:52 AM        
"A Dynojet motorcycle dynamometer does not measure horse power. It measures acceleration and then calculates torque and from that horsepower. During a dyno run the rear wheel of the motorcycle is placed on a large drum that is very heavy. During the "run" the ability of the motorcycle to accelerate this drum is measured by an optical sensor that records the rpm of the drum. From this the software uses the F=MA formula which, simply stated, says that Force is equal to Mass times Acceleration. Algebraically converted it can know the force as it knows the mass of the drum and the acceleration of that drum from the optical sensor. Once this Force is known it then uses another mathematical formula to find the torque. (t=fdcosine) (translated meaning torque is equal to the force (previously found) times the radius of the drum times the cosine of that angle) Once the torque is known it now uses the HP formula which is HP= t x RPM/5252. Converted this means that the HP is derived from the torque generated at the drum multiplied by the RPM divided by a mathematical constant of 5252.

So there you have it...hp AND torque...without rpm!

Shane

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zx12mark


Pro
Posts: 1401
posted May 27, 2012 10:04 AM        
Guys remember most bikes are connected to the dyno thru the powercomander.
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davisag


Novice Class
Posts: 100
posted May 27, 2012 10:27 AM        
hi
when you hook up without the ignition pick up you can only see your hp and torque against speed, to see it against rpm you need to pick up the ignition

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GixxerJohn


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2012 zx14R SE
Posts: 537
posted May 27, 2012 10:32 AM        
quote:
"A Dynojet motorcycle dynamometer does not measure horse power. It measures acceleration and then calculates torque and from that horsepower. During a dyno run the rear wheel of the motorcycle is placed on a large drum that is very heavy. During the "run" the ability of the motorcycle to accelerate this drum is measured by an optical sensor that records the rpm of the drum. From this the software uses the F=MA formula which, simply stated, says that Force is equal to Mass times Acceleration. Algebraically converted it can know the force as it knows the mass of the drum and the acceleration of that drum from the optical sensor. Once this Force is known it then uses another mathematical formula to find the torque. (t=fdcosine) (translated meaning torque is equal to the force (previously found) times the radius of the drum times the cosine of that angle) Once the torque is known it now uses the HP formula which is HP= t x RPM/5252. Converted this means that the HP is derived from the torque generated at the drum multiplied by the RPM divided by a mathematical constant of 5252.

So there you have it...hp AND torque...without rpm!

Shane
Thats the dyno i use right now.
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boostphreak


Expert Class
Posts: 164
posted May 27, 2012 10:49 AM        
when we set up on bike nights to just do hp pulls we dont hook up a tach signal. put the sniffer in the pipe and that way you get a printout of your hp and a/f. you have to have a tach signal to do any tuning.
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1badzx12r


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posted May 27, 2012 11:08 AM        
quote:
"A Dynojet motorcycle dynamometer does not measure horse power..

So there you have it...hp AND torque...without rpm!

Shane




and that makes it worthless for measuring HP
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GixxerJohn


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2012 zx14R SE
Posts: 537
posted May 27, 2012 11:10 AM        
quote:
quote:
"A Dynojet motorcycle dynamometer does not measure horse power..

So there you have it...hp AND torque...without rpm!

Shane




and that makes it worthless for measuring HP
Worthless,try talkin about something you know. My bike dynoed 201hp and 117 tq. Sounds about right to me.
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Shane661


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posted May 27, 2012 11:11 AM        
quote:
quote:
"A Dynojet motorcycle dynamometer does not measure horse power..

So there you have it...hp AND torque...without rpm!

Shane




and that makes it worthless for measuring HP


A dyno is a tuning tool. Relative numbers on the same dyno are what is important, imo. All dynos read a little differently, and comparing results to look for a "number" is a slippery slope...

Shane

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1badzx12r


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posted May 27, 2012 11:22 AM        
quote:
quote:
quote:
"A Dynojet motorcycle dynamometer does not measure horse power..

So there you have it...hp AND torque...without rpm!

Shane




and that makes it worthless for measuring HP


A dyno is a tuning tool. Relative numbers on the same dyno are what is important, imo. All dynos read a little differently, and comparing results to look for a "number" is a slippery slope...

Shane



TRUE

IMHO a dyno is a simulation of tuning and sold as snake oil gospel by most .. but i guess peoples got to start somewheres...
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Bishopzx12


Zone Head
Posts: 517
posted May 27, 2012 12:00 PM        
Speaking of dyno i have read almost evry vendor article about the massive power tha lie in the zx14. HOwever what real life number has you guys on the board gotten with mods such as exhasut and a fuel management system
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1996 ZX7R
1999 ZX9R
1999 ZX11
2000 ZX12R 1270
2002 GSXR 1000 "I was Drunk"
2003 ZX12R 1375
2006 ZX14
2012 ZX14R

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GixxerJohn


Zone Head
2012 zx14R SE
Posts: 537
posted May 27, 2012 12:02 PM        
quote:
Speaking of dyno i have read almost evry vendor article about the massive power tha lie in the zx14. HOwever what real life number has you guys on the board gotten with mods such as exhasut and a fuel management system
201hp and 117tq
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entropy


Moderator
Posts: 8671
posted May 27, 2012 12:54 PM        Edited By: entropy on 27 May 2012 20:09
man o' man, what a mess...

This is NOT complicated.

using a dyno, in order to tune the AF you MUST have values for 1)hp & 2)AF vs 3)rpm.

whether you tune by flashing or PowerCommander...

you "tune" by changing values in the fuel map AT A GIVEN RPM (and TP%)

On the DJ dynos I've used, if you don't give the dyno an rpm signal, the resulting graph is HP & AF vs MPH
(BTW: on those dynos, no rpm signal = no tq values)

FactoryPro dynos do not use an RPM signal input, but they use a factor X drum speed (at a given gear) and calculated rpm.

GOTTA HAVE RPM TO TUNE THE BIKE...
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1badzx12r


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posted May 27, 2012 01:09 PM        
quote:
man o' man, what a mess...



GOTTA HAVE RPM TO TUNE THE BIKE...



not on mars
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