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BIKELAND > FORUMS > DRAGBIKE ZONE.com > Thread: - ZX-14 Cylinder Head Exploration - NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 07:46 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 14:55
- ZX-14 Cylinder Head Exploration -

Well, the title is a little misleading...so far. I'm hoping to get some tips on how to disassemble a spare cylinder head that I picked up. The head is seemingly beyond repair (cam cap damage). I really just want to learn a little about cylinder heads, how the assemblies function, assembly/disassembly, and perhaps a little about port shapes.

I'm not looking for any top secret info, just general information. Perhaps I will also be able to provide some pictures or information that might be of interest.

So, here it is:

2006 ZX-14 Cylinder Head:



Cam cap damage made it cheap:



Caps removed, intake cam visible:



Close up of intake cam:



Broken cap:



#1 Intake Port:



# 2 Intake Port:



Exhaust port (oops, forget which cylinder):



Combustion chamber:



I know these pictures are nothing mysterious. But I had to start this thread with something. I do have a few questions now:


1) Even though the camshaft caps are line-bored, it sure seems very imprecise. The cams simply ride directly on the alumnium of the head, with no sort of bushing at all?

2) How do you remove the buckets in order to expose what lies below?

3) What are the suggested tools for removing the valve/spring/retainer/keeper assemblies?


Also, if anyone wants a specific picture or measurement, let me know.

Shane

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KZScott


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posted January 07, 2010 09:21 AM        
They don't touch the head. They float in oil. Its precise enough to not allow cap swaps. Not sure on clearance.
Brake clean on the buckets to break the hydraulic seal of the oil and some on your fingers to give you kung foo grip. Try to avoid magnets.
I made a valve spring compresser out of a c clamp and a cut up socket. You can buy proper tools though
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 10:05 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 17:05
Thanks Scott, that worked.



What do you guys use to keep track of the valvetrain when you take this stuff apart? You know, to make sure each assembly stays mated to the hole came out of, etc.

I'm also very interested in some suggestions for "off-the-shelf" tools for spring removal and reassembly.

Shane

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Y2KZX12R


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posted January 07, 2010 10:26 AM        
Shane we use our old seat and guide machine that has a floating air table. Its like a super heavy duty drill press. When disassembling and reassembling the bike heads we use a tool that fits in the chuck that looks like a pipe with a section cut out. this compresses the assembly so you can have free hands to work with those little itssy bitsey damn keepers.

A drill press would work for the same purposes.
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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 10:32 AM        
So, we are talking about something like a pipe/socket with window(s) cut in it? You compress the spring by pressing down on the retainer, and then remove/install the keepers through the access "window(s)"?

Sorry if my description is way off, but I am just trying to visualize it.

Shane

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narider


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posted January 07, 2010 10:58 AM        
I use a standard valve spring compressor. This one is set up for the Harley stuff, the little metric valve spring collars need something smaller like mentioned above. In the middle of the clamp in the picture below you can see a piece of pipe I ground out to have access to the keepers back in 2002 and it still works fine today. I welded a bolt in the end of it to replace the larger collar fixture for the Harley's and it stay secue in the compressor.

The piece of pipe under a drill press or standard bearing press would work fine as well.
Todd

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Ricksgsxr


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posted January 07, 2010 10:59 AM        
Not really answering your specific questions but the damaged Cam Caps when I had my GSXR 1000 1070 rebuild (nightmare with the first builder who lost one of the cam caps) I was able to find a set than was machined to fit.

I know these are made at time of casting/production but it can be done evidently

I used Cycle Concepts (Dwayne) Dwayne posts alot on Psychobikle and I wish I had used him first! might be able to do the same with your damaged ones.

http://www.cycleconceptsracing.com/

Rick

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 11:07 AM        
quote:





Thanks Todd, that is about what I was picturing. What about the valve dropping when you compress the spring? What do you guys use to keep the valve in place? Or does friction hold it still?

Shane

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 11:09 AM        
quote:
Not really answering your specific questions but the damaged Cam Caps when I had my GSXR 1000 1070 rebuild (nightmare with the first builder who lost one of the cam caps) I was able to find a set than was machined to fit.

I know these are made at time of casting/production but it can be done evidently

I used Cycle Concepts (Dwayne) Dwayne posts alot on Psychobikle and I wish I had used him first! might be able to do the same with your damaged ones.

http://www.cycleconceptsracing.com/

Rick


Thanks, Rick. I will probably keep an eye out for one of those caps...perhaps off of a really toasted head. You never know, this one may be fixable though a stroke of luck.

Shane

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Texas12R


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posted January 07, 2010 11:21 AM        
The U shaped piece will hold the face of the valve.
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narider


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posted January 07, 2010 11:32 AM        
When using a free hand compressor like mine the end of the clamp your screwing holds the valve up until removed and then the valve guide seal will (normally) hold it when removed (unlike the older harley's that never used any seals). Then you just pull the valve once the top collar is off. Other wise a fixture is best used if doing a lot of stuff and heads, but a rag under the head (like when installing the seals), works fine to hold all the valves up when using a drill press or such.

BTW, that head is fully repairable Shane... whether it's cost effective is another question of course. My buddy down the road here has a line boring machine that will do cam and crank journals on straight 8 engines... cool as shit.
Todd

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 11:33 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 18:37
Ok, makes sense now. I was also picturing a rag under the valves.

It looks like I won't get too crazy going "mad scientist" with this head (like I did by cutting up the pistons). It may be a keeper.

Of course, if it turns out to be too costly to repair...then all bets are off.

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LandspeedLarry


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posted January 07, 2010 12:11 PM        
Shane: The man for fixing cylinder cam caps is Rick Stetson of Harry's Machined Parts in Mass. If you can find a cap he can surface then align bore the head and you will be good to go. Rick has many, many years of experience and is a Maxton 200 Club member. I feel a NO2 motor coming. Use cardboard with holes to mark each valve's location. LSL
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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 12:22 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Jan 2010 19:23
Thanks Larry. I have definitely heard good things about Rick Stetson.

I would say that, yes, there is a 100% chance that I will be spraying some nitrous this season. I just want to make sure that everything is up to the task...and, more importantly, that I have some peace of mind when I press that button.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 12:47 PM        
It looks to me as if someone simply dropped this cylinder head. Note the crack in the casting, near the broken cap:





I guess that spot could be welded. I'm willing to bet that quite a few high dollar heads have been repaired from worse shape than this. Anyway, at worst I have a great "practice" head here (my original intent), and a good set of cams...for cheap.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 01:36 PM        
Bucket outside diameter:



Are these the same size as the 12R buckets? At what point does one need to go to larger buckets?

Shane

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KZScott


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posted January 07, 2010 04:31 PM        
i use egg crates. I usually have 4 eggs for breakfast so its never hard to find a few crates for free. cut one in half and over lap it on a full one to make it fit all 16 valves. ill do another one for buckets, springs shims, collets ect. i mark CC (cam chain) on one side and CS(sensor) on the other to keep things straight.

my home fabbed tool is very similar to Todds. i used a normal clamp and put a large nut wrapped with about half a roll of electrical tape where his U is to hold the valve without damaging it or the head. the cut up socket on mine has a window on both sides to allow easier accesss to both collets. tip, grease them on reassembly to hold them in place

same size as a 12 bucket. depends on base circle and lift, not just lift.

looks like its harder to change shims on a 14, the 12 has the "x cut outs"

____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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Y2KZX12R


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posted January 07, 2010 07:05 PM        
quote:
So, we are talking about something like a pipe/socket with window(s) cut in it? You compress the spring by pressing down on the retainer, and then remove/install the keepers through the access "window(s)"?

Sorry if my description is way off, but I am just trying to visualize it.

Shane



Yea, exactly.


As far as fixing that head? Almost anything is fixable. But if its a stock head its not worth it if you can buy a complete undamaged head for a few hundred bucks. We line bore and hone all sorts of stuff but if the labor to fix somthing exceeds its value well.... you get the point. Now if its a head that you have big $$$ into then thats another story.

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 07:08 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Jan 2010 02:23
Jim, my original intent was not to fix this head. But if it somehow it happens for a reasonable cost, or the prospect makes it of more value to someone else, I won't resist. It's also nice to know that such a repair is technically possible.

Right now most complete 14 cylinder heads seem to going for $500-$600. That is why I just picked up a damaged unit to tinker with, knowing that I could recoup most of my costs by selling just the cams.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted January 07, 2010 07:24 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 8 Jan 2010 02:27
quote:

looks like its harder to change shims on a 14, the 12 has the "x cut outs"



Don't you just use a small telescoping magnet to grab them?

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KZScott


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posted January 07, 2010 08:13 PM        
i have yes, but im trying to get away from magnetizing parts like this. you can get them out without magnets on a 12(you could try a small suction cup on the 14 :P). at my level i doubt it has any real effects, but its good practise

12 with carpenter springs

____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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dougmeyer


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posted January 07, 2010 09:49 PM        
I'm little puzzled as to the "don"t use a magnet" comment. Why is it that you don't want to use a magnet as I have about a thousand times?
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starchild


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posted January 08, 2010 01:05 AM        
hey shane got a question---- how was the heads casting? was it clean without any excess material? how were the ports?. --got a busaboy who says his head from a 08 was a mess, he was not impressed at all-- he was quite surprised he even mentioned it was nothing like the 12s head which i thought was very clean for a stock head. just curious i have a head for a 06 but i have not really inspected it yet. thanks shane.
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entropy


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posted January 08, 2010 01:37 AM        
quote:
I'm little puzzled as to the "don"t use a magnet" comment. Why is it that you don't want to use a magnet as I have about a thousand times?


+10

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chavcat


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posted January 08, 2010 05:57 AM        
Same question. I use magnet also.
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