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BIKELAND > FORUMS > CONCOURS14.com > Thread: Bye bye 08 - Hello 09 Connie! NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
FastestBusaAround


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posted April 04, 2009 02:42 AM        
Bye bye 08 - Hello 09 Connie!

So yesterday, I get a call from a buddy that sold his 06 FJR and was looking for a new bike. We negotiated a deal on my 08 C and I'm getting the 09 in black (no ABS) next week! I'll be installing the AreaP Full system, popping out the flies and possibly a PC, is that makes sense. I'd rather not do the PC if gains aren't substantial. What are the major differences between the PCV and the PCIII if I were to use a canned map from FuelMotoUSA?

My 08 was a fab ride and it only had 8K miles on it...looking forward to the 09 though. I want black!
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WARBIRD


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posted April 04, 2009 03:04 AM        
Fastest...............I love that black too.........looks perfect on the Connie. I have been working with a friend who has a turbo v-rod, and we are using the pcv with good results. You can run in the self tuning mode, and with your target A/F's set you can apply any changes it makes to the map stored in the PC.......or not. You can make any kind of map you want to keep stored, like a nitrous map or a rain map...........then switch back and forth between that map and the self tuning mode. It is very small and takes up very little room.

Throw up some pics when you get your "Black Betty"...................
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TedG


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posted April 04, 2009 11:32 AM        
Welcome to the club!!!! I really really like the black. Only bad part is the OEM tires. Are you thinking ABS?
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
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TedG


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posted April 04, 2009 11:42 AM        
If that PCV is as good as WARBIRD is saying, I may have to take Steves advice and yank those flies, he has only been twisting my arm for over a year.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS

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oncourse


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posted April 04, 2009 11:54 AM        
Ted, the devil is reaching out to you.... , you yank the flies and you WILL feel the difference with a pc. The full system hold a lot of promise, actually puts you at stock zx-14 numbers at the back tire, WoW!

Black isn't fastest, but looks cool clean, it doesn't have the special neutrons in the paint... Neutrons do wonders....

Oh, one more thing, did you ever look at the '08 engine??

Rob

____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.

04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!

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TedG


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posted April 04, 2009 01:00 PM        Edited By: TedG on 5 Apr 2009 03:05
quote:
Ted, the devil is reaching out to you.... , you yank the flies and you WILL feel the difference with a pc. The full system hold a lot of promise, actually puts you at stock zx-14 numbers at the back tire, WoW!

Black isn't fastest, but looks cool clean, it doesn't have the special neutrons in the paint... Neutrons do wonders....

Oh, one more thing, did you ever look at the '08 engine??

Rob


I know the effects with the flies, but as I have said before I just don't ride at low rpms unless I am droning. When I need power I am at 7and above. I don't even like to ride at low rpms if I am going to try to tear it up. Then the only real help is a pipe and I don't want noise.
No, but they told me they put in a new crank, bearing, pistons, and rings.
Green is the fastest. all the others are just for looks.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS

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oncourse


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posted April 04, 2009 01:53 PM        
Ok, I won't bust on you any more Ted about the exhaust or flies, but in real world bike vs/ bike race, off the line a stock 14 would get beat easily, the pc and full system is where you want to be, I know you want it quiet, maybe Areap can help you there *ATTN KERRY*. I might be the first one on here with the system running to let you know how loud. I do not like real loud either... Slip ons are not loud unless your really on it.

Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.

04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!

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TedG


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posted April 04, 2009 02:21 PM        
You can bust me all you want, shit you and Steve may even talk me into it. More power is a good thing. I want more top end. I would love to have a dual can system that was quiet. Two super quite cans would give me more top end as long as they flowed better than one quiet one. I have talked to Kerry about it, I am still thinking what to do.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS

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FastestBusaAround


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posted April 05, 2009 03:47 AM        Edited By: FastestBusaAround on 5 Apr 2009 17:49
No ABS, I was never a huge fan of ABS on bikes. I know it can save butts, but I hate the idea of adding extra weight to this pig.

Ted, take a look at the AreaP site for new full system...serious power gains up top with a PCV and a tune....they're talking 20 HP, which sounds a bit on the high side to me, but both of these vendors are highly reputable so there must be some part truth to this. I have never seen these types of gains from a simple tune and a pipe, but I guess anything's possible these days. According to the site info, they're talking 35 HP at the 9900 RPM soft limiter (no clue what this means exactly and it's not on that site)

Here's the quote talking about the 35 HP gain

"Full System - Power increase begins at 2200 rpm and carries through to 9900 rpm soft limiter. Increase was almost 19 hp, 7 tq. When compared at the soft limiter, the increase is almost 29 hp, 15 tq. This was with a PC3 installed, flies in, oem filter.

Fuelmoto (www.fuelmotousa.com) tested the system with PCV, Map, Flies out, BMC Street Filter. Their baseline was 135.69 hp, 91.72 tq. Results were 160.12 hp, 102.96 tq. At the soft limiter (9900 rpm) the increase was almost 35 hp, 19 tq."

PS...flies have to go - you know you'll get to your beloved RPM range faster too.:d

This is with a full system and PC3 with stock filter, flies out.

Lookie here -



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FastestBusaAround


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posted April 05, 2009 03:51 AM        
quote:
Fastest...............I love that black too.........looks perfect on the Connie. I have been working with a friend who has a turbo v-rod, and we are using the pcv with good results. You can run in the self tuning mode, and with your target A/F's set you can apply any changes it makes to the map stored in the PC.......or not. You can make any kind of map you want to keep stored, like a nitrous map or a rain map...........then switch back and forth between that map and the self tuning mode. It is very small and takes up very little room.

Throw up some pics when you get your "Black Betty"...................

So I'm guessing you need a bung installed on the pipe, right? AreaP has that option on the full system...
____________
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TedG


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posted April 05, 2009 10:11 AM        Edited By: TedG on 6 Apr 2009 00:14
I only went with the ABS because I am riding this thing all year long and have been in some pretty gnarly conditions that if there were need for an emergency stop, ABS would help. But I am having issues with the rear going off every corner I enter.
Also I was not sure of the Black because they didn't have one in stock when I got mine and I had only seen one in the crate and once on the floor. But I just love it. Doesn't seem any harder to keep clean than the silver.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS

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K Bryant


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posted April 05, 2009 10:47 AM        Edited By: K Bryant on 6 Apr 2009 01:03
quote:
No ABS, I was never a huge fan of ABS on bikes. I know it can save butts, but I hate the idea of adding extra weight to this pig.

Ted, take a look at the AreaP site for new full system...serious power gains up top with a PCV and a tune....they're talking 20 HP, which sounds a bit on the high side to me, but both of these vendors are highly reputable so there must be some part truth to this. I have never seen these types of gains from a simple tune and a pipe, but I guess anything's possible these days. According to the site info, they're talking 35 HP at the 9900 RPM soft limiter (no clue what this means exactly and it's not on that site)

Here's the quote talking about the 35 HP gain

"Full System - Power increase begins at 2200 rpm and carries through to 9900 rpm soft limiter. Increase was almost 19 hp, 7 tq. When compared at the soft limiter, the increase is almost 29 hp, 15 tq. This was with a PC3 installed, flies in, oem filter.

Fuelmoto (www.fuelmotousa.com) tested the system with PCV, Map, Flies out, BMC Street Filter. Their baseline was 135.69 hp, 91.72 tq. Results were 160.12 hp, 102.96 tq. At the soft limiter (9900 rpm) the increase was almost 35 hp, 19 tq."

PS...flies have to go - you know you'll get to your beloved RPM range faster too.:d

This is with a full system and PC3 with stock filter, flies out.

Lookie here -





FBA - Here is the Fuelmoto Dyno Graph from the system we sent to them for mapping with PC3 & V and testing with Flies out /BMC filter. As you will see, their results were even more impressive. As stated, the 35hp/19tq difference that Fuelmoto shows is when comparing the oem system to the Area P system at the soft limiter.

There are no "part truths" to these results. They are what they are. Two completely different dynos on different ends of the country under different conditions. But believe me, it wasn't easy. When we design a full system, we don't stop and we don't compromise until I feel we've done the absolute best job we are capable of. We spent almost 8 weeks in R&D designing this system; and designing it specifically for the C-14. We had 4 different prototypes and dozens of modifications to those baseline prototypes as we went along. You will be truly amazed at the performance difference. For those asking about sound levels, there is a sound byte on our website that will give you an idea. Also, sound level data is noted from stock, to slip-on, to full system.


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FastestBusaAround


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posted April 05, 2009 11:00 AM        
I get it now...I see where the 35 HP gain is now - I was looking at the wrong place. Kerry, I sent you an email yesterday regarding the purchase of a full system for my 09. I also sent one to Jamie. I guess the product isn't yet available?
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K Bryant


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posted April 05, 2009 11:05 AM        Edited By: K Bryant on 6 Apr 2009 01:06
Steve - We are on schedule for the end of April. Everything is flowing through production currently on schedule.
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oncourse


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posted April 05, 2009 11:41 AM        
This is a win win situation, to make the fastest best handiling touring bike on the planet. Area-P did their job and cannot wait to have one myself, with good tires and this system with pc3 or 5 this bike can and will do wonders. It was a great bike to start with, it is just that now, it's in it's own league.

FBA: it will be available this month, jamie ordered with and without bungs.... I am writing jamie again now to pc3 vs. pc5, I do not think that the dyno run they did would be any difference between them, in the real world the pc5 might just win out with auto tune.

Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.

04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!

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FastestBusaAround


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posted April 05, 2009 12:57 PM        
So Rob, with the bung's...is there anything else we need when adding the PCV? Does it come with the O2 sensor or is that a separate part? I'm dying to get my hands on the exhaust and the PCV!

Kerry, thanks for the info - looking forward to your new piece! Can't wait. I loved my 08 with your slip-on's.
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FastestBusaAround


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posted April 05, 2009 02:10 PM        Edited By: FastestBusaAround on 6 Apr 2009 04:11
quote:
Ted, the devil is reaching out to you.... , you yank the flies and you WILL feel the difference with a pc. The full system hold a lot of promise, actually puts you at stock zx-14 numbers at the back tire, WoW!

Rob


Except that it weighs like 140 lbs more...LOL, but ya, that's a very significant gain for such a big heavy pig. I know my Connie was a fucking rocket -- that thing with the flies out would pull like a fucking banshee off the line, usually on one wheel. That front tire didn't get much wear on mine -

I have to say, it beat my 04 FJR hands down in every respect, and even the 07's I've ridden don't compare as favorably. I'm hoping that the install of the full exhaust will reduce the heat issue, seeing as how the cats are gone.

So the 1st thing while I'm waiting for my exhaust, will be the flies out...not much else I can do. Oh yeah, and the ZX14 license plate bracket to replace that silly rear big assed fender.
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oncourse


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posted April 06, 2009 08:34 AM        
Steve, there will only be 1 bung, and yes the autotune kit is seperate, it's another box and the wideband o2. I do not know if there will be any gains with the pc5 over the pc3 I have to call jamie and get the scoop.

Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.

04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!

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cls


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posted April 08, 2009 05:55 AM        
We're having the same debate on another site, so I went straight to someone who would know. Kerry said the O2/AutoTune features are not necessary on the street bikes. That's what I thought, as well. I have no technical backing for that. It just didn't make sense to me. So, I'm going w/o.

I don't guess Kerry minds me passing that along. I hope not.

Chris

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cls


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posted April 08, 2009 07:25 AM        
The guys at Fuelmoto say the same: It's not worth it. FYI...
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oncourse


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posted April 08, 2009 12:35 PM        
Here is what I finally got today,

The pc5, as mapped by fuel moto, vs Pc3: The pcv has one more bar for throttle position, a plus, however that plus means abour 1 hp or less. What I was told is that the pcv, with auto tune is only for non perfected maps. In otherwords, if there was no "perfect map, or none at all" the Autotune will help. I even went as far as to ask about Ted G with elevation changes and I was given, the auto tune will not really help, however the elevation changes will be seen by the pc3 or 5, and be adjusted accordingly via the map sendor.

Sorry, I did my best, been out to the club playing darts and the pussy messed me up, but am trying to be 100% acccurate
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.

04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!

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cls


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posted April 08, 2009 11:23 PM        
I got the same info. I like it.
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K Bryant


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posted April 09, 2009 02:03 AM        
quote:
We're having the same debate on another site, so I went straight to someone who would know. Kerry said the O2/AutoTune features are not necessary on the street bikes. That's what I thought, as well. I have no technical backing for that. It just didn't make sense to me. So, I'm going w/o.

I don't guess Kerry minds me passing that along. I hope not.

Chris


No I don't mind at all. Technically, I stated that I didn't see it as a "huge benefit" in referance to discussing the Area P exhaust and should you purchase a PC3 or 5.

"There really is no right or wrong answer. If you do not already have a PC and are going to purchase a PC, then buy the PCV for obvious reasons (smaller, more options). If you already have a PC3, it is not necessary to go out and purchase a PCV unless you want the additional benefits of smaller and more options. There is no question that the autotune module is a cool optional feature. But understand that it is a more costly option. Objectively, for most riders and/or applications and conditions, IMHO - I personally don't see it as a huge benefit. A properly tuned and written map obviously offers some flexibility. Yes, on the dyno we can see and/or note all the differences that occur when A/F ratios change within that controled enviornment. How much will you notice those changes as your enviornment changes when/where you ride? Not a lot unless you talking about very extreme enviornment changes. And again, I'm not debating the advantages of having a closed loop system. Just how much are you truly going to appreciate those differences.

Again, no right or wrong answer - For example - On many bikes (such as GSXR1000 or Hayabusa), we remove the O2 sensors and write precise maps for whatever mods they have. Some racers will use wideband, autotune, etc. to "map" their engines for racing, a particular race track, temps/humidity/elevation. Some will simply write/adjust their map to conditions. Which one is better? That debate is probably endless"

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oncourse


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posted April 09, 2009 11:29 AM        
Kerry, thanks for the post! I already have flies out and a slip on pc3, so for me the obvious choice is keep my pc3 and get the full system and just reprogram it for the full system. Flies out just rocks my world! Talking about making a big bore feel like one, it's a no brainer... Just comapre the torque graphs between yours and flies out (fm) there is a big improvement, and that improvement is just not paper, it really works! Like the old days without gov't interference, it does the job,,,,,

Rob
____________
True intellegence is not measured by your degrees.

04 klr 250 Lots of mods and 70 MPG!!
08 Connie 2 bros. Carbon. Helibars. Flies out, PC3!!!
2003 kx 500 SOLD
2004 KX 500 In service now, whata BEAST!

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