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BIKELAND > FORUMS > DESMOSUPERBIKES.com > Thread: If you had to choose (Poll) NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
fish_antlers


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posted December 18, 2006 12:39 PM        
but we're not talking about a top of the line duc... we're talking about the 1098, and if it cost the same as a 14 (basically it almost does right now)... I'm not sure if the maint. costs are really that different.
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zerMATT


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posted December 18, 2006 01:06 PM        Edited By: zerMATT on 18 Dec 2006 12:11
MSRP on a 1098 is $14,995 (US), while a ZX-14 is at $11,499. Those prices are basically the same? How do you figure? Don't forget to add in the fact that you can easily pick up a ZX-14 for $10,500 plus tax (or less if you shop around), while I'm guessing that a tougher-to-find new 1098 will bring a premium at Duc dealers for at least a year or so. I see some price gouging gettin' ready to hit... kinda like trying to buy a Miata or Z06 (C5 or C6) in it's first year of production. There will be waiting lists for most consumers...

As for maintenance, IMHO, any manufacturer who has to issue a press release about reducing maintenance costs of their motorcycles by 50% (aka Ducati in November) *must* know that they are losing business because of that expense. Even reducing a Duc's maintenance by 50% is still quite a bit higher than your typical Japanese bike that you can perform all necessary maintenance yourself with a service manual in-hand.

Recent Duc's have required valve adjustment (something that should only be done by a factory-trained technician with factory tools) every 6,000 miles, and cam belts every 12,000 miles. Even *if* Duc reduces the maintenance interval by half, and reduces the charge for that maintenance, it will still easily surpass the valve adjustment cost of any popular Japanese inline-4. Which, by the way, you can do in your own garage with some basic mechanical aptitude and a maintenance manual.

Sure, it's a sexy bike, and they have brought the price down substantially, but there is still no comparison against a Japanese-made inline 4 for reliability and ease of use. It's a premium motorcycle for premium people... and they will have no problems finding buyers for every one they produce... because it *is* a great motorcyle.

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fish_antlers


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posted December 18, 2006 01:13 PM        
matt... first of all dont debate the obvious... read the poll... it states that IF they both cost the same ...

now.. that being said even with the price spread (regardless of the question in the poll), if you look at the bits that the Duc come with standard (wheels, suspension etc) they are easily worth far more than the acutal $3500 price difference (even though the poll is IF THEY BOTH COST THE SAME)

And I'm sorry, but I do dispute your comments regarding reliabilty and maintenance costs.. As I mentioned in another thread I owned a 900SS for 4 seasons. In that time my maintenance costs were substantially less than those I incurred owning my ZX-12R, and about on par with the 10R that I currently ride.
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salsa1


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posted December 18, 2006 01:16 PM        
To me it comes down to which bike accelerates harder... the Duc will never do 8's n the 1/4 ...I'll take the mighty 14... in Red or black...

someone who corners for thrill more than straight line acceleration should decide for the Duc.. and it is a very nice looking bike... not really lacking power either...

But The ZX-14 for mua .. thank you...
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zerMATT


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posted December 18, 2006 01:47 PM        
quote:
matt... first of all dont debate the obvious... read the poll... it states that IF they both cost the same ...
My response was to your statment of them basically costing the same - which they don't.

The reason that this poll is a thread, and not locked down to choice 1 or 2 only is because people will have different viewpoints than you, and they may want to take the time to justify their answer (we hope, don't we?).

It's like the timeless question of buying a Corvette or a Porsche. Comparable models have comparable performance (finally), but the price difference when you jump *up* to a Porsche makes most people chose to go with a 'Vette. The two marque's will never "cost the same", so why try to compare them like they might? It's apples and oranges.

quote:
now.. that being said even with the price spread (regardless of the question in the poll), if you look at the bits that the Duc come with standard (wheels, suspension etc) they are easily worth far more than the acutal $3500 price difference (even though the poll is IF THEY BOTH COST THE SAME)
That is a valid point, but only *if* that same consumer cared about having those upgrades. Most consumers don't... they just buy a bike and ride it, right out of the box, cheap forks, shock, wheels, and all. Sure, if you must have those expensive goodies to be able to enjoy a motorcycle, then the Duc is for you, no matter what the price is.

quote:
And I'm sorry, but I do dispute your comments regarding reliabilty and maintenance costs.. As I mentioned in another thread I owned a 900SS for 4 seasons. In that time my maintenance costs were substantially less than those I incurred owning my ZX-12R, and about on par with the 10R that I currently ride.
That's fine, but that also means that you choose to take your 10R to the dealership for maintenance, when you actually have the option of performing that maintenance yourself. My first motorcycle, a ZRX1200R only ever made one trip to the dealer for it's first oil change. They screwed that up so badly that I vowed never to take a motorcycle of mine into a dealer. My ZZ-R1200 went 22,000 miles before I sold it, and it never saw a dealership for maintenance. It doesn't work that way with a Duc. Engine maintenance must be performed by a factory-trained technician, or your warranty is void.

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stevewfl


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posted December 18, 2006 04:07 PM        
quote:
why ask the question? I think it's because few and far between are the people who use a bike like and R1 or a 14 as their primary source of transportation. Bikes like this are luxury products purchased by people because of emotional attachment and brand loyalty... (just my $2 werth)


My 14 is primary transportation because i like riding it so much.

Here in FL the only days of the year I'm not on it are days it rains, only then I have to commute in a cage. I've done 7000 miles on it since May, and have yet to go on a trip over 200 miles. Its either going to work, going to play, or getting tortured.

And at $11,500 I conside the bike cheap transportation rather than a luxury item.

I'm doing so many short-trip miles I'm buying a second bike soon (at least thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it). I really need a 600 or litre bike for the local Jennings GP track - oops I meant good gas mileage







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worm~hole


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posted December 18, 2006 06:34 PM        
....I buy what piques my emotion IF my budget allows the purchase...both the 14 and the 1098 pique my moto-emotion...if the budget allowed and IF it was an ergonomic fit, I'd buy the 1098 and be very satisfied indeed

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stevewfl


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posted December 19, 2006 12:04 AM        
To all the naysayers (like myself) about DUC MAINTENANCE, here is some informative reading a gentleman from the Duc forum provided me:

http://www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/en/news/detail.jhtml?newsId=14941
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MadMike


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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted December 19, 2006 09:29 AM        
for me I have a race bike, and I am looking for something to pick up so my wife and I could go out for rides when we actually have the chance to find a baby sitter, She on her R1 and me on something else... one of my 3 dream bikes was an MV Agusta... I have thought the Duc's were ok, but they never really surpassed the MV in how they look. I can actually say now though I would take either this Duc, or an MV and still be extreemly happy!
This is one beautiful bike and that is what I am looking for.
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fish_antlers


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posted December 19, 2006 09:39 AM        Edited By: fish_antlers on 19 Dec 2006 10:50
you'd be happy cuz you could take that $10K you save by buying the duc, give me 5 of it and then spend the rest in vegas (on me, of course )
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MadMike


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posted December 19, 2006 11:39 AM        
Now that sounds like a plan...
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bigdtd


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posted December 19, 2006 02:07 PM        
i would take the 14 mostly because it would wax the ducati in a straight line
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princesskiwi


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posted December 20, 2006 01:32 PM        
quote:
worm... yamaha's have always had huge miles between services... way back when I owned my FZR1000 I remember thinkin to myslef' that the bike would be wrapped around a telephone pole many miles before it was due for its first valve service.


Is that the bike you wrapped around the telephone pole?

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princesskiwi


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posted December 20, 2006 01:37 PM        
Factory Mille Aprilia, if it was on the list of picks, would be the bike I would pick.
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MadMike


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posted December 20, 2006 02:22 PM        
quote:
Factory Mille Aprilia, if it was on the list of picks, would be the bike I would pick.


a friend of mine has one for sale if your interested, I can find out the info....?

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shawnski


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posted December 20, 2006 07:34 PM        
zx14 is my choice, i still have 3500 dollars left to buy bunch of accessories and do bunch of modification
don't get me wrong if i had Jay Leno's money i would get one and add to my collection.
i think italian dropped the price of bike vs. 999 because they are changing their marketing strategy some and trying to compete with japanese bike. the horsepower and performance is getting up there with japanese bike and with new price tag will obviousley get alot more consumer attention.

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MadMike


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posted December 21, 2006 09:31 AM        Edited By: MadMike on 21 Dec 2006 08:32
why can no one understand the title IF Both Cost The Same
????
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shawnski


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posted December 21, 2006 02:00 PM        
quote:
why can no one understand the title IF Both Cost The Same
????



i still will buy zx14, it fits my riding style and i like BIG BIKES. i sold my 6 months old 06 gsxr1000 2 months ago with 450 miles on it, just did not do anything for me.
from now on my choice bikes will be either zx14 or hayabusa unless yamaha or honda comes with same type of bike worth of having one.

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zerMATT


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posted December 21, 2006 02:07 PM        
quote:
why can no one understand the title IF Both Cost The Same
????
Because THEY NEVER WILL. It's really a pretty lame question.

How about a new poll? If a 10 ct and a 1ct diamond each cost $1,000, which one would you buy? DUH!!!

I'm sticking with my 1ct diamond because it goes faster... and it fits my fat ass better for long road trips. That 10ct diamond might look better and be worth more in the end, but it doesn't suit my purposes. Besides the fact that IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
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fish_antlers


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posted December 21, 2006 03:02 PM        
* shaking head * .. you just dont get it, do you...


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zerMATT


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posted December 21, 2006 07:00 PM        
I seldom "get" a lack of logic, no.
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fish_antlers


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posted December 21, 2006 07:11 PM        
matt.... just like when you go to the movies or watch your favorite TV show... try to "suspend your belief" and play along with the other kids.
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redelk


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posted December 22, 2006 05:02 AM        Edited By: redelk on 22 Dec 2006 04:20
I'd probably take the 1098.

$3,000 "lack of logic"? Okay... I'd still pay the $3K difference for Digitek instrumentation, Marchesini wheels, Ohlins rear shock, Brembo monobloc calipers w/330mm rotors, magnesium subframe... and so on. Try putting the first two items on a ZX-14 for less than $3K.


Digital MotoGP derived unit displaying: Speedometer, rev counter, oil temperature, warning light for low oil pressure, remaining fuel, fuel reserve, trip fuel, average fuel consumption, average speed, clock, neutral, turn signals, scheduled maintenance warning, immobilizer. Ready for DDA system



Hell, I'd probably shell out the additional $$$ on their over priced flash memory stick and software for the Ducati Data Analyser. If for any reason, to confirm that I am a poser and in no way can ride the bike to a fraction of it's capability. Might as well throw in the electric shifter too.

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zerMATT


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posted December 22, 2006 08:03 AM        
quote:
matt.... just like when you go to the movies or watch your favorite TV show... try to "suspend your belief" and play along with the other kids.
You hit the nail square on the head there... which is why I've never really liked TV shows or movies that push reality too much... guess I'm just not much of a believer. It's kinda like watching the horror movie where the villan is chasing someone in a car, but the person being chased will only run down the middle of the road, never even entertaining the idea of making a quick turn one way or the other, knowing that the car & villan can't do the same.

And now back to your regular programming, and occasional world of make-believe

Merry Christmas anyway!

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worm~hole


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posted December 22, 2006 02:32 PM        
....youz guys are gooofy....
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stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”

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