smokinZX14
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posted October 20, 2010 06:42 PM
 Edited By: smokinZX14 on 21 Oct 2010 02:43
quote:
quote:
quote:
That must be one hell of a 14 you have. You should bring it to the track some time  .
The advantage the 14 has is tons of low end TQ. Unless the BMW is running at high RPM most of the time, the ZX will pull it on roll-ons all day long at most speeds. Add a few mods to the sprockets on the 14 and the BM's toast.
Well we thought the low-end tq would be an advantage too especially in the cellar but it doesn't seem to matter. The transmission gearing on the litre bikes are lower than the big bore bikes so that will always play a part in the acceleration department.
We did a little comparison a few weeks ago. Don't make a scene on the dyno #s as they may seem low to most on this site. Dyno was a Dynojet 200 with all the updated parts. All dyno #s mentioned are SAE.
The players:
2008 Kawasaki ZX14, Yoshimura Full Exhaust, No flies, BMC Race Air Filter, PCIII USB,
-1/+2 sprockets>>>Tuned to 178hp
Rider weight = 205 w/Riding jacket
2010 BMW S1000RR, Akrapovic Full Exhaust w/longest canister, BMC Race Air Filter, PCV,
-1/+2 sprockets>>>Tuned to 183hp
Rider weight = 270lbs w/Mesh Riding Jacket
The first run we did a 2nd gear roll-on speed of about 60mph where the ZX14 was at about 5.5k rpms and the BMW was at about 7.5k rpms.(don't remember exactly on the BMW but we tested based off of the ZX14). The BMW did the arm drop and the BMW pulled immediately and up to the shift of 6th gear had the BMW by about 3-3.5 bike lengths.
The second run we did a 2nd gear roll-on with a speed of about 35-40mph where the ZX14 was at 2k rpms and the BMW was at about 4-4.5k rpms. The ZX14 performed the arm drop this time and initially pulled about by a wheel but once the BMW swung up to about 9k the BMW pulled and was ahead by about 1 bike by the next shift into 3rd.. Once the BMW shifted into 4th the BMW no longer pulled more than 3 bikes. Once in 6th the BMW still had the ZX14 by 3 bikes. The aeros of the big rider were probably the reason the bike no longer made anymore gains oonce in 4th gear at over 120mph.
Just an FYI. There have been several ZX14s on this same dyno with either a Muzzy full system or a system with an Orient Express header and a slash cut tip. None of them made more than 169hp on a tune. All had flies removed and had the BMC filter or stock filter on one. So this ZX14 is one of the best running ones out here.
Note: The ZX14 with the most HP was running a standard Bridgestone tire on the dyno and on the road. The next best ZX14 was on a normal street tire as well but do not recall which one. 2 others were on Shinkos and registered the lowest HP #s. Of course the BMW was on the factory tire as well. Just in case everyone chimes in on the dyno #s.
With all of this test information, go ahead and tear it apart and call me a liar.
Why would we call you a liar ? We all know the BMW makes more MPH on the track than a zx14 .. And we all know it makes more HP on the dyno ... So i ask what was the point of this post ? Last time i looked we were talking about the new zx10 ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
  
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TurboBike
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posted October 20, 2010 06:46 PM
Wrong post apparently, sorry. I'll delete it. But the Zx10 will essentially be the same anyhow.
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
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smokinZX14
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posted October 20, 2010 07:58 PM
quote:
Wrong post apparently, sorry. I'll delete it. But the Zx10 will essentially be the same anyhow.
True if the new zx10 makes the HP the BMW makes same thing will happen .. With that said i still rather have a ZX14 for drag racing , it justs make for a better platfourm for drag racing ..IMO ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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TurboBike
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posted October 21, 2010 07:54 AM
I totally agree. I have always prefer the big bore bikes especially for draggin'
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
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MJ
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posted October 21, 2010 04:35 PM
quote:
quote:
Wrong post apparently, sorry. I'll delete it. But the Zx10 will essentially be the same anyhow.
True if the new zx10 makes the HP the BMW makes same thing will happen .. With that said i still rather have a ZX14 for drag racing , it justs make for a better platfourm for drag racing ..IMO ..
Here's the first actual dyno numbers I've seen out for the 2011 zx10 compared to a 2010 zx10 and a bmw 1000-
2010 ZX10r - 157.2. hp
2011 ZX10r - 159.8. hp
BMW S1000R - 168.1 hp
These numbers were posted up online then quickly deleted when the shop that did them was supposedly contacted by kawasaki. But as you know, once somethings posted online its never really deleted. The shop was Redline Motorsports located in Canada..... Calgary if I remember right. The numbers were posted along with a video on the zx10r.net forums. As we suspected the new 10 isn't really any stronger than the old, and quite a ways away from being a beemer beater lol. Nothing that 2500 bucks worth of race ecu and pipe kit can't fix though eh?
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2010 04:39 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 22 Oct 2010 00:40
quote:
quote:
quote:
Wrong post apparently, sorry. I'll delete it. But the Zx10 will essentially be the same anyhow.
True if the new zx10 makes the HP the BMW makes same thing will happen .. With that said i still rather have a ZX14 for drag racing , it justs make for a better platfourm for drag racing ..IMO ..
Here's the first actual dyno numbers I've seen out for the 2011 zx10 compared to a 2010 zx10 and a bmw 1000-
2010 ZX10r - 157.2. hp
2011 ZX10r - 159.8. hp
BMW S1000R - 168.1 hp
These numbers were posted up online then quickly deleted when the shop that did them was supposedly contacted by kawasaki. But as you know, once somethings posted online its never really deleted. The shop was Redline Motorsports located in Canada..... Calgary if I remember right. The numbers were posted along with a video on the zx10r.net forums. As we suspected the new 10 isn't really any stronger than the old, and quite a ways away from being a beemer beater lol. Nothing that 2500 bucks worth of race ecu and pipe kit can't fix though eh?
Yeah, because nobody ever puts a pipe on their bike... 
You guys crack me up. The Kaw, restricted, supposedly minus 22 hp and 750 rpm, makes within 8 hp of the BMW. I wonder how it will run unrestricted?
I guess you serious performance folks who leave on the stock exhaust are going to be really disappointed. 
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SteveWFL
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posted October 21, 2010 05:46 PM
Hopefully better than its going to do on the sales floor 
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2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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JZX
Zone Head
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posted October 22, 2010 03:36 PM
Questions
How much is a race ecu?
Why not order a euro pcm from a euro dealer?
Can we order the euro model tail section or signals?
~ no way would I or anyone else I know buy this bike for msrp if the dealer did not throw in the race ecu free of cost. Who wants to buy a new more expensive machine if it is barely 2nd place. Learn the lesson from the ZX12. Even with the race ecu, you still have to deal with the reputation of riding a machine physically identifiable of carrying that reputation.
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Shane661
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posted October 22, 2010 03:37 PM
It's all about the rep, yo!
That's why we all rock 'Busa's up in this camp!
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JZX
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posted October 22, 2010 03:52 PM
Of course with the 12, i was at least able to get full power and then some with the usual pipe,filter(screens only) and tune. Busa had the rep, but i made a good 12hp more then one with the same mods.
Point I am trying to make is this ECU better be cheap. How many people do you know buy kawasaki bikes for anywhere near sticker, with tt&l?
It may be better to get an 08 used 14 and build the bike, i think it would be a bit of a better value, since i like strait lines. I just thought it would fun to have another liter bike to wip around instead of piloting a sea doo on the street 
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Shane661
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posted October 22, 2010 03:55 PM
Nobody even knows if it requires a race ECU. In the past you could extend revs on most Kaws with just a $250 ignition module from Dynojet. So, I think all of this "$2500" talk is a bit premature.
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JZX
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posted October 22, 2010 04:09 PM
I hope so, i would like to see dyno sheets of both euro and stateside bikes. Seems to me the curve would half to flatten out a little before the rpm cut out so as to not have such a violent face first effect bumping into it, which would seem to me, a little to easy to do. The mapping, fuel and timing are probably messed with on Stateside pcm's.
I would love to be wrong though
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Shane661
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posted October 22, 2010 04:13 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Oct 2010 00:18
Yeah, but as I say...mapping, timing, and rev limit can be controlled via the aftermarket pretty cheaply, usually. Most people who really want to go fast usually add a full exhaust and a fuel controller anyway.
Of course, there are still people who are upset about the secondary butterflies on the 06-07 ZX-14's....and you needed a fuel controller to fix that as well. And man, that 14 exhaust weighed 38 lbs! And the clutch springs were soft, and the bike was limited to 186 mph....well, you get the idea.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
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posted October 22, 2010 04:19 PM
quote:
Yeah, but as I say...mapping, timing, and rev limit can be controlled via the aftermarket pretty cheaply, usually. Most people who really want to go fast usually add a full exhaust and a fuel controller anyway.
In this case it is my understanding that "usually" does not apply - you'll need to buck up for a new ecu - there's no magic wire you can cut - no easy fix.
FYI that limiter cuts in at 11.5 - thats all in that video censored by the man.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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JZX
Zone Head
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posted October 22, 2010 04:20 PM
If we can make this ecu do the same thing as the euro with pc/usb then i guess what u are saying is no need for the race ecu. Is that all the R1 guys did to solve their restriction issue?
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Shane661
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posted October 22, 2010 04:24 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Oct 2010 00:39
quote:
quote:
Yeah, but as I say...mapping, timing, and rev limit can be controlled via the aftermarket pretty cheaply, usually. Most people who really want to go fast usually add a full exhaust and a fuel controller anyway.
In this case it is my understanding that "usually" does not apply - you'll need to buck up for a new ecu - there's no magic wire you can cut - no easy fix.
FYI that limiter cuts in at 11.5 - thats all in that video censored by the man.
Fish, I'll wait to hear from the experts about the ECU issue. It took quite a few months before pulling the butterflies on a 14 got an official blessing by the aftermarket.
So, now you are claiming the redline is 11500? Before, you claimed 11000, then retracted. I think we need to wait until the bikes show up...your info is highly suspect at this point.
This article, with dyno numbers, claims a 13750 rpm redline:
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2010/10/north-american-2011-kawasaki-zx-10r-loses-20-hp-slower-than-s1000rr/
Hmmm....I wonder which info is correct??
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TurboBike
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posted October 22, 2010 04:50 PM
quote:
Of course with the 12, i was at least able to get full power and then some with the usual pipe,filter(screens only) and tune. Busa had the rep, but i made a good 12hp more then one with the same mods.
Point I am trying to make is this ECU better be cheap. How many people do you know buy kawasaki bikes for anywhere near sticker, with tt&l?
It may be better to get an 08 used 14 and build the bike, i think it would be a bit of a better value, since i like strait lines. I just thought it would fun to have another liter bike to wip around instead of piloting a sea doo on the street
Yea the old ZX12 really woke up with any exhaust availabel but the step Hindle we put on made an additional 15.5hp peak w/o tune. That was the best money spent for a single performance bolt-on. The Gen I Busa was lucky to make 10hp after a tune. I know I have heard more but all the ones I owned or modified never made big power over stock.
If the US model is restricted by exhaust alone, then there should be a substanial amount of HP unleashed........
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RACE WHAT YOU BRUNG AND HOPE YOU BRUNG ENUFF
!!!!
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fish_antlers
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posted October 22, 2010 04:56 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 23 Oct 2010 00:59
Shane - the info I am giving you is directly from the manufacturer - The "experts" - I know you think they are smarter than the guys that built the bike.
FYI hell for leather hasn't ridden the bike - I'm giving you into straight from the saddle.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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JZX
Zone Head
Posts: 943
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posted October 22, 2010 05:10 PM
The 12 was great. The clutch basket and oil pan bolt protector sucked.
My 12
Stock 156hp dyno
Muzzy full syst,ign advancer, screens,resonator tubes removed,royal purple,tps mod, and that canister i ripped off by the block off plates, wut the hell was that again?
178.9hp dyno on 91 pump gas,no power commander.
Now that was impressive,not to mention the 14mph trap speed increase,although gearing and lowering contributed to that.
One would hope 2011 zx10 responds half that much to bolt ons.
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06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
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Shane661
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posted October 22, 2010 05:13 PM
quote:
Shane - the info I am giving you is directly from the manufacturer - The "experts" - I know you think they are smarter than the guys that built the bike.
FYI hell for leather hasn't ridden the bike - I'm giving you into straight from the saddle.
So you are saying you rode it, and it smashed into the rev limiter at 11500 indicated on the tach?
So, you are willing to go on record as saying the bike hits the limiter at 11500 indicated rpm, and won't spin any higher?
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fish_antlers
Administrator
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posted October 22, 2010 05:37 PM
Guess you needed to watch that video.
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What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
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TedG
Moderator
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posted October 22, 2010 07:13 PM
quote:
Guess you needed to watch that video.
We tried before it got censored. But .
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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Famous1
Expert Class
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posted October 22, 2010 08:08 PM
power commander ignition module......
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TedG
Moderator
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posted October 22, 2010 09:23 PM
This thing stinks to high heaven.
If Kawasaki can't engineer it to be quiet enough and deliver the power, they deserve the sales flop it is going to be. All they needed was an intake restriction that could be removed and maybe they could pass this expensive pig off. Now it is just a feeble attempt. Just lame.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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Shane661
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posted October 23, 2010 01:20 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 23 Oct 2010 11:03
quote:
Guess you needed to watch that video.
Wow, you guys are lame.You should make an exclusive whining video. You will get more site hits that way, obviously. 
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