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BIKELAND > FORUMS > HAYABUSA-ZONE.com > Thread: Anyone have a broken '99-02 ECU laying around their garage? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
ridgeracer


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posted August 28, 2007 04:09 PM        Edited By: ridgeracer on 28 Aug 2007 16:14
Anyone have a broken '99-02 ECU laying around their garage?

For those of you who don't make it over to the ZX-12 forum I have figured out how to reprogram the early model, 2000-2003, ZX-12 ECUs. While I've been working on that project I've noticed that the Busa ECUs look the same, use the same connectors, have the same yoshbox / Teka connector, and work with the same 'extended' mod.

I believe they use the same internal Denso circuit board. If so I should also be able to re-flash them like the ZX-12 units. I'll I need to do to prove this is get my hands on one. I've been keeping an eye out on ebay but the older units never seem to come up.

I don't need a working unit.

If you replaced your ECU because an injector channel went out or something and you just tossed the old unit on a shelf somewhere because it wasn't any good to anyone I would like you to consider sending it to me.

I will tear it apart and it see what is inside. Wouldn't you all like to see what the internal ECU ignition and fuel maps look like and then change them?




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ridgeracer


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posted August 31, 2007 12:10 PM        
Somebody at Labusas.org tipped me off to a place called Sportbike Center in IN. where I found a broken one for $25.

I'll let you all know what I find out.


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PetriK


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posted September 03, 2007 10:45 AM        Edited By: PetriK on 3 Sep 2007 11:07
Souds excellent !

Hmmm... how do you remove all the black stuff that is surrounding all the goodies - bearing in mind that the dremel is held by a person who does not have much patience ;-) ?

I could bet that the pysical pcb is not exactly the same as in the ZX12. The ones which have been advertised for xtal change look like having a hole in the middle. Additionally the Busa FI error codes are transmitted to an LCD screen requiring some kind of SIO output being used. I guess that in the later models they also renewed the coil driver circuits in addition to the wheel. But - all the couple of denso base program codes which I have seen in the past have been very much alike between various ecu:s. Looks like they are rather using parametrization than newly developed code for the each engine manufacturer.

btw, the pcb is literally touching to the sides of the case.

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ridgeracer


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posted September 03, 2007 01:33 PM        Edited By: ridgeracer on 3 Sep 2007 13:38
If your just talking about notching it to expose just the programming plug then I would stick to the dremel tool.

If your talking about removing ALL of it you could always go with chemicals, once the outer hard shell has been cut away of course. I know one place here in the US has had success soaking it in Acetone. Another person in Europe used something called Bardahl Paint and Gasket remover and a paint brush. Of course since acetone is essentially nail polish remover maybe its the same thing.

As for the pcbs being the same; as long as they use some flavor of the 68HC16 processor and left an unstuffed BDM port on the edge of the board somewhere I think it will work.

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PetriK


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posted September 03, 2007 02:14 PM        
On earlier type busa ecu the BDM port is there in its favourite position, close to back edge. For the processor, some more digging must be done.

So its a good start...

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ridgeracer


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posted September 03, 2007 09:09 PM        
How do you know this? Have you seen one or an X-ray of one?
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PetriK


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posted September 03, 2007 10:16 PM        Edited By: petrik on 3 Sep 2007 23:22
Yes - just started to open one - thought to do something useful for a while ;-)). ... thought this would provide faster feedback than trying to get one and send one over there.

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/Hayabusa_notchable.jpg



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ridgeracer


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posted September 04, 2007 07:16 AM        
Excellent work. That photo answers the first and most important question. Does it have a BDM port.

So what are your plans now? Do you plan to fully uncover the board? As it is right now you could just solder a plug into it, apply power, and read out the code if you had the necessary equipment.


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PetriK


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posted September 04, 2007 10:58 AM        Edited By: PetriK on 4 Sep 2007 11:00
quote:
So what are your plans now? Do you plan to fully uncover the board?


Thanks - hopefully this finding creates interest amongst the others who understand the possibilities of true ecu tuning (compared to piggyback units).

I guess that somewhere there is an old flash programmer lying around. Anyhow as the programmer has been in the bottom of the drawer for years it would be just easier to buy one than try to find out what pin is for what purpose. (Last time we used ECU SIO to read the memory (byte by byte) and then connected an add on board to the processor bus with an additional EPROM. The other ecus were even easier, just playing with EPROMs. Flashing directly to processor integrated memory is an odd thing for me.)

This ecu may already be damaged to an extent that it can not be fully powered up. (dremeled too far on the side, which can not be seen on the piccie). Also my Motorola dissassembling skills are too low to do anything useful with the raw code, really appreciate the effort which you have done based on the writeups on ZX12 thread. I can read a partially documented code, but to start from scratch is too much. (Its a decade since I programmed anything). But its tempting though to look if the maps are in the same positions with ZX12 which would make the effort very easy - but my bike unfortunately has a newer generation ECU so its likely that the maps are in different position anyway.

My particular interest is in dash control data port (pin 33, if I remember correctly). In busa that signal to my understanding drives the temp gauge, error codes on LCD and the FI light. I would like to know how that operates (TTL level RS232 @ 19.200 ?). For that purpose I ordered a scope (do not have one right now) just to look the signalling. I initially started to open the ecu to find on the PCB some information about the possible driver chip, if any.

What would be your advice / suggestions bearing in mind the above ?





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ridgeracer


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posted September 05, 2007 07:18 AM        
You have exposed enough of the board that you can install a BDM plug and download the software. Maybe you should do that before you go any farther and risk damaging it to the point that it is unreadable.

Depending which corner of the CPU you think you damaged you can probably still download the code. As long as you have power and clock signals your still good. I know its not the same board but can you indicate on the image below which corner or pins you think you might have damaged?




quote:
Flashing directly to processor integrated memory is an odd thing for me.


Actually the BDM port is a Debugging / Development port that can be used for flashing. You see the CPU can flash itself. You use the BDM to download a boot loader program into RAM then execute it to have the CPU flash itself.

I don't know what your technical background is but if you wanted to build your own BDM interface checkout section 10.4 of this document

http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/ref_manual/CPU16RM.pdf

I used a homebuilt rig the first time I downloaded the code. If I had it to do over I would just buy the hardware and software from P&E micro. Its a lot easier.

If you do get the code downloaded send me a copy and I'll take a look at it and see what I can find out about what is going out the serial ports. I can't promise I'll find anything but I can give it a try. It would be worth it to get a copy of a Euro ECU

And once you have the code finding the map locations is really easy. It wouldn't take more than an hour or two to write up an Enginuity definition for an ECU once I have the code, at least for the main Ignition and Fuel Maps.

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PetriK


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posted September 05, 2007 10:13 AM        Edited By: PetriK on 5 Sep 2007 10:18
Many thanks for advice and hints...

quote:
Maybe you should do that before you go any farther and risk damaging it to the point that it is unreadable.

That might be true ;-)

quote:
Depending which corner of the CPU you think you damaged you can probably still download the code.

After now having seen a photo of the board I doubt that any damage is done. Its max 2mm in from the sides, so not even near the BDM connector.

quote:
I don't know what your technical background is but if you wanted to build your own BDM interface checkout section 10.4 of this document

Having looked at the manual, not only to build BDM interface but also to write a software... way too much for me. Using a ready made could be within the limits, but still not learned within days.

quote:
If you do get the code downloaded send me a copy and I'll take a look at it and see what I can find out about what is going out the serial ports.

I need to find someone locally with a BDM interface or send the ecu over. Witout proper BDM software looks like its really - well, an effort.

quote:
I can't promise I'll find anything but I can give it a try.

After looking the serial interface schematic you have drawn, it looks like the CPU controls the data format and its just uses a couple of transistors for signal levels. I assume that the latter transistor is also connected to +5V. Then about the other writing it looks like its 19.2K speed. So should be straight forward to start debugging, but any help with the SIO protocol would be highly appreciated. I will give it a go in a couple of weeks after I know the signal levels for sure (=scope). I think that there could be more than just the temperature/fault codes/fi lamp information.

I could not find on the CPU manual much info about the serial I/O ?

quote:
It would be worth it to get a copy of a Euro ECU

This is' a pre O2 sensor ecu, so not likely to have much difference. I guess its also configured for 8 pin wheel. The latter ecus with O2 sensors would be even more interesting, as the EGO feedback algortihm and EGO correction areas on the maps are not not known.

quote:
And once you have the code finding the map locations is really easy. It wouldn't take more than an hour or two to write up an Enginuity definition for an ECU once I have the code, at least for the main Ignition and Fuel Maps.

Yes - would be interesting to see those. E.g. the rumour is that 6th map differs from 5th map just enough to drop the top speed - the manual does not suppor that, it says there is 2 x 2 maps:
- low load middle cylinders & low load cylinders on the side
- high load middle cyliners & high load cylinders on the side
The switching algorithm between those is unknown. I would guess its based on accel & map & rpm.

This is very important project that you are doing as I see it. Even the persons using powercommanders and other alikes would benefit from being able to disable low load maps and just focus on TPS map on their tuning. The bike with modified ecus would become much more easier to tune and much more driveable after tuning.

The answer is quite lenghty - just realized it from the board. Maybe should concentrate on one issue at the time.

Tried to send you a pm about some other stuff. The email information was impossible to find out.




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PetriK


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posted September 06, 2007 07:14 AM        Edited By: PetriK on 6 Sep 2007 07:54
Managed to get in contact with someone who has BDM device that I could borrow. The device is known to work with S12, so dont know if it works with this cpu. He mentioned that sw can be downloaded from motorolas pages. The BDM device has a std connector that is referred also in the processor manual so rewiring is needed.

Most likely will need help:
- wiring advice from the ECU board to std BDM std connector (left from back = 1?, what to do with DS ?)
- advice on which power wires are needed to get BDM working
- advice on selecting and even using the software (freescales version?), i.e. which steps to take to download the code. (is it in segments, should I load some vectors etc. )


----------------------------
EDIT: This info was found from zx12thread

1) Vdd 5VDC
2) IPIPE0 / DSO (67)
3) IPIPE1 / DSI (68) * 10k pullup resistor R514
4) BKPT_ / DSCLK (69) * 10k pullup resistor R515
5) RESET_ (71)
6) BERR_ (73) * 10k pullup resistor R512
7) FREEZE / QUOT (74)
8) Vss Ground

This is from the cpu manual
1. DS
2. BERR
3. GND
4. BKPT/DSCLK
5. GND
6. FREEZE
7. RESET
8. IPIPE1/DSI
9. VDD
10. IPIPE0/DSO
------------------------------------------------------------------
edit 2: this is the bdm in hand

http://forums.freescale.com/freescale/board/message?board.id=TBDML&message.id=2



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ridgeracer


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posted September 06, 2007 09:43 AM        
quote:
Managed to get in contact with someone who has BDM device that I could borrow. The device is known to work with S12, so dont know if it works with this cpu. He mentioned that sw can be downloaded from motorolas pages.


BDM is BDM. There is no difference as far as hardware and interface handshaking goes between CPUs. Software is a different matter. The software your looking at should work for reading out the code. Its just reading out memory locations which is the same basic function regardless of CPU version, I think. Flashing the chip however is very specific but we can worry about that later.

quote:
The BDM device has a std connector that is referred also in the processor manual so rewiring is needed.

Most likely will need help:
- wiring advice from the ECU board to std BDM std connector (left from back = 1?, what to do with DS ?)


I just left my DS and BERR disconnected. It didn't seem to bother my software/hardware. As for wiring my device also uses the standard 10 pin connector. Here is an excerpt from a manual I'm writing. A 10 pin dual row ribbon cable header should be fairly easy to find. The single row header for the ECU perhaps more difficult. You could always just solder the wires to the ECU.

http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/draft-manual.pdf

quote:
- advice on which power wires are needed to get BDM working


I've been working on this myself. I've found a pdf copy of the 99-00 Busa Shop Manual but unbelievably it does not have the ECU pin out. Everything is referenced by wire color. There are some scattered ECU pin numbers described in the manual sensor troubleshooting section and I think I have been able to piece together the pin out.

Many of the major wires like injectors, coils, and ground, are the same as the ZX-12 unit. So I'm guessing the power is too. But thats a pretty risky guess. I wouldn't want to blow up your unit. Here is what I have so far. In this diagram lines with both a label and a number in red, for example Coil1 / 1 are confirmed in the manual. Those with just a number are a guess based on the way the wires appear to be consecutive with in their groups

http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/busapinout.jpg

The pin I calculate to be the ECU +12V power pin is 17, the same as the ZX-12 ECU.



It would be nice if you could connect it to some kind of current limited bench power supply just in case. Or use a Digital Volt Meter set to DC current and put it in series with the power lead to measure the current. It should only draw about 250mA sitting idle. Or maybe hook it up with a 1 amp fuse in line. Be careful not to touch the pins around the power pins or you may blow something up. Its pretty tight in there.

Once you got the 12V power connected use your volt meter to measure the Vcc and Gnd on the BDM connector. REMEMBER TO SWITCH YOUR METER OUT OF CURRENT MODE FIRST. You should have 5VDC.

quote:
- advice on selecting and even using the software (freescales version?), i.e. which steps to take to download the code. (is it in segments, should I load some vectors etc. )


I'm not familiar with that software but it should have some kind of dump memory to a file function. Sections of interest in the ZX-12 ecu are:

0000:0000 - 0000:FFFF Software block
0001:0000 - 0001:7FFF Map Data

0009:0000 - 0009:07FF BEFLASH
000E:0000 - 000E:0FFF RAM

Or you could dump the entire 1M address space from 0000:0000 - 000F:FFFF and then search through it for code.

I'll check out the software manual and get back to you.

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ridgeracer


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posted September 10, 2007 06:23 PM        Edited By: ridgeracer on 10 Sep 2007 18:25
Today I got the damaged ECU I ordered in the mail. I notched it and cleaned away the plug area.





The voltages on the pins checked out the same as the ZX-12 so I soldered a connector on it and hooked it up to the BDM port. To make a long story short, it worked great. I down loaded the software and map data out of it.



I've done a very preliminary map definition for the Enginuity freeware software. You can find the definition file and the map binary in this zip.

http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/busa001.zip

Here is a screen shot of one of the busa maps.

http://www.bikeland.info/images/ecu/cam004.jpg

Any one want to volunteer to help with the map definitions? The current one has no units, or axis defined yet. I don't even know which maps are ignition or fuel. That will have to wait till I get a chance to go through the software.

BTW I also verified the power pins diagrammed in the post above are the correct power pins.

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PetriK


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posted September 10, 2007 10:26 PM        Edited By: PetriK on 10 Sep 2007 23:18
Excellent ! Well done!

Will have a look of the maps... basically what busa has is the following:

1) 2 x Low load map based on manifold air pressure
2) 2 x High load map based on TPS position
+ Then there is certainly gear maps.

2 x means that the middle cylinders are running a tad bit richer than the outer cylinders. In 1999 there was no difference (ecu wiringwise) between US and Europe.

Already spent an hour with those, but can only make guesses and not even very educated ones. Very interesting !!! Will get back with some suggestion after some more thinking process.

EDIT these are the preliminary thoughts: Busa runs rich between 3-4k with airbox lid removed. Some of the maps may actually drive the airbox lid actuator (vacuum control solenoid valve). Supposedly the top speed is limited with a top gear restriction. The acceleration enrichment varies also lot. There is also an atmospheric correction which may well be table based. Also the manifold and ambient temperature sensor corrections may be table based. When clutch is pressed with a gear on then the RPM limiter is few hundred RPM lower than normally. Etc...

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petrik


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posted September 11, 2007 04:25 AM        
Just by looking at the maps I would GUESS the following, but only GUESS at this stage:

A&B Maps, Type I map, Fuel
- Type I, Low load maps (manifold air pressure based, 10083&10A5B at center)
- Type II, High load maps
- X/Y axis possibly other way round?

A&B Maps, Type III Gearmaps ?
- Gears 1-6
- Neutral
- Clutch engaged when gear on
- Topmost row is highest gear
(These do not make full sense to me as ram air compensation maps - maybe something else ?)

Type V map, Ignition
- Ignition low load maps 1-8 (Other than below - educated guess middle cylinder map as advance is lower for cooler burn)
- Ignition high load maps 1-4 (16891, 165F6, 153B9, 1511E)
- Ignition high gear low load map, i.e cruising ? (1635B, 14E83, 158EF, 14417)

Sorry, I could not find from enguinity a setting that would allow to rename the maps... I was always user level beginner, which propably is true too ;-) ?

Here you are with links to maps on factory manual which do look alike when using the 3D view after turning a bit, but not exactly the same:
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/Busa_injection.jpg
http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/Busa_ignition.jpg





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ridgeracer


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posted September 11, 2007 07:45 AM        Edited By: ridgeracer on 11 Sep 2007 07:54
I'm sure the manual maps are output maps, in other words end product results of all the various fuel input maps, throttle, air, gear etc. In the ZX-12 the final injector value is the result of more than 20 variables. Besides the base air pressure and throttle maps there were virtual accelerator pump, water temp for cold start enrichment etc.

As for the map details the software will tell us all the answers. I just haven't had the time to go through it. Now in the ZX-12 I totally exposed the circuit board and then traced down all the main connector pins back to the CPU. For example if I traced the throttle position sensor (TPS) back to analog to digital converter channel 6 on the CPU I would then go find the AN6 register address in the software and trace what it did with the value and I would eventually end up at a map axis. I'm hoping that I will be able to identify the analog values by their software signature and skip physically tracing them out.

Also the injectors and ignition outputs are driven by CPU compare timers. The software after calculating a value for the injectors writes it to the timer which turns on the device for that period of time then toggles the pin when the time is up. Of course the coils and injectors have very different signatures. The injectors always turn on from a set crank position then off after a variable delay. The coils delay from a set crank position (advance) and then turn off.

So again once I identify which registers are coils and which are injectors then I can back trace to see which map values are a factor and thereby identify it as a fuel or timing map.

The crank sensor (rpm) and cam sensor on the other hand are compare timers set up for input capture. The software will be reading them, not writing to them. I'm sure given my experience with the ZX-12 this should go rather quickly.

I just haven't had the time to look at it in that detail. I've only had the code for 18 hours


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PetriK


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posted September 11, 2007 12:00 PM        
18 hours and you already has a strategy and maps - this project has a speed of combined nitrous and turbo boost ;-)) Btw at first sight those 8 "gear" maps looked very much like acceleration maps for various gears.

Sometimes to find the correction factors the wiring schematics, factory manual and respective patents are handy. Nissan had initially covered the manifold airflow fuel injection programming locig quite well in their respective patent application. I would guess that Suzuki and Denso have also covered their air-fuel path logic very well - tried to look for relevant patents, but could not really find one that is relevant for this project.

Anyhow these two below looked somewhat relevant in this context (bearing in mind also the application date)
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6234145.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6085729.pdf

It could be helpful also to find what are the patents listed for this product to understand the programming elements used. Unfortunately I do not know where to find that information ? Maybe someone else knows how these could be found ?


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ridgeracer


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posted September 11, 2007 12:09 PM        
Please forgive my ignorance but I have a couple busa trivia questions I need answered.

What is the RPM limiter value in gears 1-5?

What is the RPM limiter value in gear 6? (i.e. the RPMs when the 186 speed restriction kicks in)

The reason I ask is I was going through the code and the first thing I looked for was a numerical constant 37,500. This number in the ZX-12 is used in a formula to convert the crank pulse time period into an RPM value used by all the maps etc. I not only found the value I found the exact same math subroutine in the Busa meaning they use the same timing and that I know have located the RPM variable.

So I'm going through the code looking for instances where the RPM is used and I found a routine where it is checked against these values

11,400
11,600
11,800
12,000
10,065
10,090

The way these map values are used in the routine they look like hysterious limit values. When you set an RPM limit you don't kill the injectors at 11,600 and turn them back on at 11,599. What you do is set an upper and lower bound. The zx-12 has 4 values injector off, injector back on, ignition off, ignition back off.

But the last two numbers are really odd. It wants the ecu to do something when the RPMs are between 10,065 and 10,090. The only thing I can think of is 6th gear RPM at 186 mph. If this is true than I've found the speed limit map variables.

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PetriK


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posted September 11, 2007 12:24 PM        Edited By: PetriK on 11 Sep 2007 13:29
In K5 the limiter is 10.800, with gear on and cluch on -x00rpm. On neutral it should have also a different value -x00. So I would guess that explains the values of 11.x00. (edit - no hysteresis here, but this is how it has been tested to function) The values are 1000rpm too high anyway. A typo or could it be possible that these are the maximum map scaling values for various gears ?

By quick maths the 6th gear top speed limiter is around 10.050. So you are most likely right in this one ;-))

The 12.000 I do not know, maybe its a hard coded shut off value ? With K5 the ignition does not play a role at all in limiters, but I have revved only up to 11.500.

A rumour tells that on GSXR suzukis one injector is shut off first (injector 2) and then full shut off, but that is only a rumour I have never validated that.

f(Ignorance) = Determination * Focus ???


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ridgeracer


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posted September 12, 2007 04:45 PM        
Here is an updated definition file for the Enginuity Map viewer/editor.

Map axis now include RPM and Throttle values. Also added some misc maps including a gear map.

http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/busa004.zip


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PetriK


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posted September 25, 2007 10:06 AM        Edited By: PetriK on 25 Sep 2007 10:07
I never got a working BDM, but meanwhile Ridgeracer has made an exellent effort on this !

Some of the my (and his) time has lately been spent on studying the ECU to Instrument cluster serial protocol which seems to carry information e.g.
- Temperature gauge
- Dealer mode on, off , TPS adjustment
- Engine error codes
- Throttle position based information
To me there is a fair chance that this protocol with a slightly modified ECU program could be used for logging the engine information for tuning purposes. Something I never even dreamed of getting out from a busa with the OEM ecu.

But what is still needed is a new generation ECU to find out if the programming interface is same for 2002-2007 ECU models which most of us ride...




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ridgeracer


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posted September 26, 2007 11:15 AM        
I found an interesting thing today.

As some of you may remember I mentioned that the Busa ECU has two sets of identical fuel and ignition maps I call A/B maps. Looking through the software I found which set of maps is used is dependent on an external input to Port B bit 4 (CPU pin 36). That means its jumper selectable which means it can be changed with a switch.

Better yet I found that Port B is scanned and the Map A/B select flag is updated as part of the Main programming loop every ~400mS.

In english that means you can change the maps while the bike is running.

This is good news for you nitrous guys. It means you can have separate maps for on NOS and off NOS. A nearly half second delay between switching maps isn't optimal but it isn't excessive either. It could be worse, on the ZX-12 the switch is scanned only once when you turn the bike on.

Disclaimer time. I don't know that the other year busa's have the same code and I haven't traced the cpu pin to the main wire harness connector so I don't know for sure its wired into the wire harness. Stay tuned

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PetriK


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posted September 29, 2007 08:40 AM        
quote:

..... external input to Port B bit 4 (CPU pin 36).



Lets see if that pin could be traced...



Higher resolution pictures at: http://www.macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/ECU/

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PetriK


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posted September 30, 2007 04:48 AM        Edited By: PetriK on 30 Sep 2007 04:48
quote:
quote:

..... external input to Port B bit 4 (CPU pin 36).


Lets see if that pin could be traced...



Based on initial tracing on the PCB the A/B map switching signal can be initiated from ECU harness pin 15. At this stage this is unverified information.

For those who are seriously interested, you can follow up and contribute to the progress of tracing here:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=13672117



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