edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 03, 2012 04:32 PM
A Gen2 14R motor will fit a Gen 1 frame
I know this has been asked in different post but I wanted to address this issue in a new post. I have just installed a 2012 Gen 2 14R engine in my 2008 Gen 1 14 frame. The engine swap is a direct bolt on. I am using my Gen 1 wiring harness with the Gen 2 engine.The front engine mounts and rear engine bolts holes are the same. No drilling required. I used my Gen 1 throttle bodies and they match up perfectly to the engine and the upper frame intake ducts perfectly.
Now to the issues to get it running. Since the Gen 2 engine does not have a cam position sensor, but the cam sensor boss is manufactured in the Gen 2 head, I sent the head to Jim at Competition CNC to have the cam sensor boss drilled out and the bolt hole to hold the sensor in place drilled and tapped. Another issue, that I didn't catch initially, was the Gen 2 water temp sensor is a smaller unit and the connector is completely different from the Gen 1 water temp bulb and connector. I already had the head installed back on the motor when i found out this water temp bulb issue or I would have had Jim take care of it at the same time he fixed the cam position sensor.
My Gen 1 Ti-Force header bolts right up to the exhaust ports but the header does hit the oil pan which causes the bolt hole on the lower right side to not line up exactly. Its about a complete hole off which doesn't matter to me. On the initial start up, I could not get the engine to run when I released the starter button. After several tries of trying to get it running, I finally rotated the throttle bodies to wide open and then back to the closed position. The motor then started right up and continues to start and run without any issues.
The Gen 2 front sprocket cover does not have the provision for the speedometer fitting but the Gen 1 front cover fits perfectly.
I haven't ridden the bike yet because I am redoing my nitrous system. Hopefully, by next weekend I will be able to take her out for a spin around the neighborhood. I will keep y'all updated on the test drive but I really don't see any issues popping up.
While Jim had the head at Competition CNC, I asked him to do a Stage 2 port job on it and installed bigger valve springs. Now that i have the engine in the bike and running, the motor sounds very strong. I can't wait to get her to the track for some test and tune.
If anyone is interested in doing this swap, its really an easy swap and i know where two low mileage Gen 2 motors are located.
If you have any questions, just give me a shout.
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Ed
  
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Lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted November 03, 2012 05:17 PM
Impressive and ground-breaking!!!
Anxious to see what times you turn.
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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vailes3705
Expert Class
Gettin Better
Posts: 235
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posted November 03, 2012 05:34 PM
If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to have the head work done for the cam sensor?
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2011 ZX14
Best 1/8 mile to date:
5.90 @ 121
1.46 60ft
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 03, 2012 06:13 PM
quote:
If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to have the head work done for the cam sensor?
To drill the cam sensor and tap the bolt hole was $110 bucks.
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Ed
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 03, 2012 06:14 PM
quote:
Impressive and ground-breaking!!!
Anxious to see what times you turn.
Hello Lucky, I can't wait either. I am like a kid with a new toy.
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Ed
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Juice
Expert Class
Posts: 154
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posted November 03, 2012 06:26 PM
Ive wanted to know if you could do this since the new 14 has been out! Congrats and hope she brings you quick times!
Now that i know you can what about using the gen 2 harness and ecu?
That way you would have to worrie about the cam & temp sensors....
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2007 Kawasaki Ninja ZX14 SE - 8.74 @ 150 MPH
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Lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted November 03, 2012 06:41 PM
quote:
Now that i know you can what about using the gen 2 harness and ecu?
That way you would have to worrie about the cam & temp sensors....
The beauty is that (for drag racing) by using the Gen 1 electronics, you can opt out of traction control and safety mode and whatever other power reducers Kawasaki hid.
Even with the Brock flash, the new ECU is not optimum.
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You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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joel787
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted November 03, 2012 06:59 PM
This is Awesome! Great job man
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http://www.proe-pr.com/cnc.html
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 03, 2012 07:01 PM
quote--"Now that i know you can what about using the gen 2 harness and ecu?
That way you would have to worrie about the cam & temp sensors.... "
You will need the entire Gen 2 harness because alot of the connectors are completely different, such as the throttle body connector, water temp sensor, the starter motor rely, etc.
Now a good head swap would be a Gen 1 head on the Gen 2 engine with the Gen 2 cams. That should really be a fun ride.
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Ed
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joel787
Zone Head
Posts: 590
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posted November 03, 2012 07:08 PM
quote:
Now a good head swap would be a Gen 1 head on the Gen 2 engine with the Gen 2 cams. That should really be a fun ride.
Why? Would it raise compression?
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http://www.proe-pr.com/cnc.html
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 03, 2012 07:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Now a good head swap would be a Gen 1 head on the Gen 2 engine with the Gen 2 cams. That should really be a fun ride.
Why? Would it raise compression?
Yes it would. Plus you already have the cam sensor issue taken care and you still get to use the bigger cams from the Gen 2.
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Ed
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted November 04, 2012 05:35 AM
What is different about the head? Does the Gen 2 have more chamber volume? I am just curious is to what has changed that would increase compression with the head swap. Thanks.
Shane
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 04, 2012 06:00 AM
Jim told me the Gen 1 head has a smaller combustion chamber than the Gen 2.
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Ed
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kawa74
Expert Class
Posts: 226
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posted November 04, 2012 12:48 PM
Now a good head swap would be a Gen 1 head on the Gen 2 engine with the Gen 2 cams. That should really be a fun ride. quote
WHAT ?
What is the 1st thing you do to a Engine to increase Power ?? ....Header, why ?.... Because it increases Exhuast flow, which increases intake flow, " cross flow". Vaccum signal at the intake valve
You increase the VE, Volumetric Effiecency
14r head is better,... Kawasaki did all the work for you
CNC chambers from the factory, perfectly equal CC
Bigger Ex Valves 28.3mm vs 27mm, 18 cfm per cyl More flow potential, better the EX= more POWER
Bigger cams .366 vs .355 in and .335 ex to feed bigger inchs, 88" vs 82"
Bigger and better flowing Exhuast Ports
Forged pistons, 6 grams lighter
Higher compression, 12.3 vs 12
Longer rods,3mm, better Rod to Stroke ratio
Taller deck,4mm
By the way , You should Extend the RPM's at least 500 and shift at 11,200, Smokin ,Shane and Brock have all proven this !!
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"I have never met a man so Ignorant that I coun't Learn from him"..."Galileo"
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 04, 2012 07:23 PM
[/quote "By the way , You should Extend the RPM's at least 500 and shift at 11,200, Smokin ,Shane and Brock have all proven this !!
Hello Kaw74 -- right now with the Gen 1 motor I am shifting at 10800, so you think I should go up to 11200? May have to try it but I sure get nervous when it starting getting that close to the limiter.
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Ed
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Lucky14
Pro
Posts: 1439
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posted November 04, 2012 08:49 PM
quote:
[/quote "By the way , You should Extend the RPM's at least 500 and shift at 11,200, Smokin ,Shane and Brock have all proven this !!
Hello Kaw74 -- right now with the Gen 1 motor I am shifting at 10800, so you think I should go up to 11200? May have to try it but I sure get nervous when it starting getting that close to the limiter.
Extend the RPM's = Send the ECU to GUHL (or Brock) and get the rev limiter raised by 500.
____________
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
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Swiftkart
Expert Class
Posts: 349
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posted November 05, 2012 09:35 AM
So the Gen 2 exhaust cam has the crank sensor boss on it to pick the signal needed for the Gen 1 ECU? If so, the larger ex. cam from the Gen 2 could be put into the Gen 1, similar to the Busa guys running dual intake cams and picking up a little hp
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2006 ZX14, Brock CT-Meg, PC, ignition module, E85, 214 lbs suited, 8.96@152.32 1.46 60'
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 05, 2012 01:28 PM
That is true but if you use the Gen 2 exhaust cam in the Gen 1 motor, be sure to check your pistion to valve clearance because the Gen 2 cam in bigger.
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Ed
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted November 05, 2012 01:51 PM
quote:
[/quote "By the way , You should Extend the RPM's at least 500 and shift at 11,200, Smokin ,Shane and Brock have all proven this !!
Hello Kaw74 -- right now with the Gen 1 motor I am shifting at 10800, so you think I should go up to 11200? May have to try it but I sure get nervous when it starting getting that close to the limiter.
My bike has been on the extended limiter (11400+ actual) at least 125 times...with stock valve springs. Indicated rpm on the tach is near 500 rpm lower than actual.
Shane
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted November 05, 2012 04:29 PM
Thanks Shane. I appreciate the info. Looks like I need to extend my shift points.
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Ed
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted November 07, 2012 09:05 PM
quote:
quote:
[/quote "By the way , You should Extend the RPM's at least 500 and shift at 11,200, Smokin ,Shane and Brock have all proven this !!
Hello Kaw74 -- right now with the Gen 1 motor I am shifting at 10800, so you think I should go up to 11200? May have to try it but I sure get nervous when it starting getting that close to the limiter.
My bike has been on the extended limiter (11400+ actual) at least 125 times...with stock valve springs. Indicated rpm on the tach is near 500 rpm lower than actual.
Shane
Oops. I meant to say that indicated rpm on the tach is near 500 rpm HIGHER than actual. Meaning that the bike will show near 11500 rpm indicated, with the stock ECU, when it reaches the limiter. My extended ECU will show close to 12K rpm, at 114xx actual.
Sorry for the confusion!
Shane
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bluefrog14r
Parking Attendant
Posts: 6
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posted January 02, 2013 05:43 PM
 Edited By: bluefrog14r on 3 Jan 2013 01:44
good thread .where y can find a gen 2 2012 14r engine and at what price ?
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted January 03, 2013 06:56 PM
Hello blue frog. Give me a call at 817-602-8327
Eddie
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Ed
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edszx14
Expert Class
Posts: 271
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posted January 03, 2013 06:57 PM
Hello blue frog. Give me a call at 817-602-8327
Eddie
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Ed
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JSmooth
Expert Class
Posts: 169
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posted January 21, 2013 10:08 AM
Id be interested in doing a motor swap as well, I'm looking on line now for the 14r wiring harness. This is good info for us 14 owners who don't have the funds to dump on a new bike. Trick or Treat
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