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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: New best 60' with tuning issues. NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 07:01 PM        
New best 60' with tuning issues.

Same and Dave carried the 14 down to bike week at Myrtle Beach and hit the track Saturday afternoon. Not quite a world class facility but the track was prepped off the line nicely. We had some tuning issues and not sure what was the culprit but possibly a combination of several things. Air temp was in the 90's and we've been racing with it around 70-75 degrees. The DA was 2500 feet and we've been running and were tuned with the DA around 500 feet. We used MR12 fuel on a MR9 tune and I was told by the tuner I needed to richen the mixture up significantly in order to get the tune back close to where it should be. Whatever the reason, the bike would break up in the upper RPM's. Dave spun on the first pass but came right back and cut a 1.29 60' time. He said he wondered if that was a fluke but the 3rd pass with a 1.30 validated the 1.29. The rest of the pass wasn't there because of the above tuning issues and the shut down area being questionable and SHORT so Dave may have been inadvertently chopping the throttle early as well. Bike ran 5.60's all day with a best of 5.65. Best MPH was 123 and the last time at the track 3 of the 4 passes were over 131. That should give an idea of how much the tune was off. Time to go back and tune the MR12 (or perhaps MRX01) with the outside temp at least in the mid 80's for the Summer. Also thinking about getting one of those auto tuning devices to maintain the tune once we find out exactly what A/F ratio works best on the new fuel. Dave is getting better and better pretty much every time out with the 14 and he's got his sights set on a 1.25 that has been laid down by a member here as the number to shoot for. I'll post up how bad the tune was when we go back for a retune for the new fuel. I'm guessing we were down 20-25 horsepower but, really, who knows? Thanks for reading everyone and see you at the track.
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eklipse636


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posted May 27, 2012 07:19 PM        
By my experience in using mr12, you can't use it on a gen1 without mapping.
I've tried every map Brock had trying to make mr12 work. Mr9 worked great for me.
I would think that would be your main problem.
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 07:23 PM        
quote:
By my experience in using mr12, you can't use it on a gen1 without mapping.
I've tried every map Brock had trying to make mr12 work. Mr9 worked great for me.
I would think that would be your main problem.


Thanks. I kinda figured that was the main culprit but I just simply ran out of MR9 before we could get back and have the bike retuned for the MR12. We would have probably been better off to have run straight pump gas on the pump gas tune as the bike has actually trapped 131.27 before on straight out of the pump 87. Never ran quicker than a 5.6x on pump though.
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Viper


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posted May 27, 2012 09:14 PM        
I think the track was more of the problem than your tune. My rider said they only made 3 passes and they never went full throttle as the track was so bumpy that you could actually see bikes coming off the ground. He said that she didn't feel safe at all. I think if the track were smooth Sam and Dave would have ran alot faster even with the mr12
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 09:25 PM        Edited By: smokinstorm on 28 May 2012 04:28
quote:
I think the track was more of the problem than your tune. My rider said they only made 3 passes and they never went full throttle as the track was so bumpy that you could actually see bikes coming off the ground. He said that she didn't feel safe at all. I think if the track were smooth Sam and Dave would have ran alot faster even with the mr12


Yeah, track was bumpy but I've never heard of a bumpy track making a motor break up in the upper RPM range. Sam and Dave told me your rider's wife didn't like the track at all and refused to make more passes. If it was that bad I'm surprised Dave kept trying. He did though and actually kept pulling good 60's but the power had gone away. Dave raced another ZX14 and was side by side with him halfway down and then got overpowered badly. You've seen my 14 run and can verify that no one pulls away from Dave on the big end with another stock bike. He said the guy was blipping the throttle on him and still pulling away. Being down 8 MPH tends to do that to you. We're going to get another tune soon and sort this mess out.
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Viper


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posted May 27, 2012 09:32 PM        
yea I forgot u did say it was breaking up. I think you may have been a lil lean. I think that Sam a Dave and my riders wife were in the few that were getting good 60 fts. I was told that most bikes were spinning pretty bad
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 09:45 PM        
quote:
yea I forgot u did say it was breaking up. I think you may have been a lil lean. I think that Sam a Dave and my riders wife were in the few that were getting good 60 fts. I was told that most bikes were spinning pretty bad


I heard Sam say she was running a couple of tenths off what she ran last time out. MPH look the same? 60' the same? Sam said a lot of bikes were poppping and breaking up. Maybe because it's the first time this year they've run in 90+ degree temps and nasty DA??? I just hope Dave can 60' the 14 like that from now on and couple that with the MPH the bike usually runs. But maybe the nasty air will put a hold on any good times now until November. Who knows? I'd sure like to maintain what it's been running all Spring though.
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Viper


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posted May 27, 2012 09:53 PM        
yea she was because she never went full throttle. Her mph was down too. But if she didn't go full throttle that makes sense tho. He was just saying how bumpy the track was with no run off and a very short burn out box. We will see what the weather will hold on the 16th of June at my riders event (Block Fest) at Northeast.
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BLK ICE


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posted May 27, 2012 10:11 PM        
Congrets on the 1.29 60' that is a great milestone to meet!
Are you using a hand clutch or engine driven clutch?
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01smokes


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posted May 27, 2012 10:15 PM        
quote:
Congrets on the 1.29 60' that is a great milestone to meet!
Are you using a hand clutch or engine driven clutch?


also how long in the bike and gearing if you dont mind sharing that
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 10:19 PM        Edited By: smokinstorm on 28 May 2012 05:27
quote:
Congrets on the 1.29 60' that is a great milestone to meet!
Are you using a hand clutch or engine driven clutch?


Stock hand clutch using stock clutch plates even. Just have upgraded to Brock's springs now. We were running some springs from Dwayne at Cycle Concepts but he said they might be too light for our application. Being as we were only getting about 50-75 passes on a set of clutches using his springs, we figured he was right. Switched to Brock's springs (without the extra spacers BTW) and now we're getting double or more the passes on a set. Trying for 1.25 on this same stock clutch as that's the standard that's been set.
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 10:25 PM        
quote:
quote:
Congrets on the 1.29 60' that is a great milestone to meet!
Are you using a hand clutch or engine driven clutch?


also how long in the bike and gearing if you dont mind sharing that


Sure, no problem. It's got 16-43 gearing now. Normally it has 16-45 but the 45 tooth sprocket broke off some teeth and I only had a good 43 to put on the bike to go to bike week. Wheelbase currently is at 71". We moved it out that long to accomodate Sam's riding style and at 240 suited it needed to be that long. Dave (160 suited) doesn't need the bike to be that long we don't think so we're going to start pulling the wheel in a little bit at a time to see what happens. If he can maintain the 60's I know it'll go harder out the end the shorter we go. We can go out to a maximum of around 71.5" and we may need that once I go into the motor and modify it. Now, as stock as it is there isn't any need to be this long. Here again, we suspect. Testing this hypothesis to follow for sure.
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BLK ICE


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posted May 27, 2012 10:28 PM        Edited By: BLK ICE on 28 May 2012 05:36
quote:
quote:
Congrets on the 1.29 60' that is a great milestone to meet!
Are you using a hand clutch or engine driven clutch?


Stock hand clutch using stock clutch plates even. Just have u[graded to Brock's springs now. We were running some springs from Dwayne at Cycle Concepts but he said they might be too light for our application. Being as we were only getting about 50-75 passes on a set of clutches using his springs, we figured he was right. Switched to Brock's springs (without the extra spacers BTW) and now we're getting double or more the passes on a set. Trying for 1.25 on this same stock clutch as that's the standard that's been set.

1.29 60' with a hand clutch, now that is even more impressive. Did Sam's 60' improve also?
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 10:36 PM        
quote:
quote:
quote:
Congrets on the 1.29 60' that is a great milestone to meet!
Are you using a hand clutch or engine driven clutch?


Stock hand clutch using stock clutch plates even. Just have u[graded to Brock's springs now. We were running some springs from Dwayne at Cycle Concepts but he said they might be too light for our application. Being as we were only getting about 50-75 passes on a set of clutches using his springs, we figured he was right. Switched to Brock's springs (without the extra spacers BTW) and now we're getting double or more the passes on a set. Trying for 1.25 on this same stock clutch as that's the standard that's been set.

1.29 60' with a hand clutch, now that is even more impressive. Did your heavy riders 60' improve also?


Sam's best is 1.34 that turned into a 5.62. He just doesn't ride the 14 much anymore. He's got his hands full trying to wrestle the turbo Busa down the track. I doubt if the 14 has enough power to get a 1.2anything with Sam riding as his 1.34 was a pretty much picture perfect launch at I believe 9000 RPM. Don't hold me to the 9000 RPM thing though. Sam does always launch at a really high RPM. That's part of why the clutches went south so rapidly before.
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smokinstorm


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posted May 27, 2012 10:39 PM        
Oops Black Ice. Didn't properly answer your question. We changed the length of the bike along with the springs so I can't say that the springs improved the 60" times. The extra length sure did wonders for Sam on the launch however.
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BLK ICE


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posted May 28, 2012 12:03 AM        Edited By: BLK ICE on 28 May 2012 07:03
160lb rider+ 1.25 60'+131MPH= 5.3s?
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Bueller


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posted May 28, 2012 02:51 AM        
quote:
160lb rider+ 1.25 60'+131MPH= 5.3s?


tryin bout every other week the 60s are dropping. think we are at 8 trips out with me on a big bike, so setup is a little slow going. Still a lil intimidated after only 1 season on a 1k lol. But 1.20s consistant by hand is my personal goal and is getting close. Still kinda thinking a shock setup in some kinda way for me may help though lol. But so far the tracks have either been good on either end, and not both. But yea, I had a hell of a time stopping at that track. After the guy who bounced around and flipped bike down the end of the track, and burst into flames I was a little quick on the brake there. I "know" I was shutting down way before the line, and still cutting it close. If I woulda did that 1.29 and 131mph I know I woulda been off the track. They didnt show 330s so it was just a 60 day. But Ricky G. came up and asked if he could park with us and spent whole time talking about our truck. Not really how you would think that would go right? lmao

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smokinstorm


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posted May 28, 2012 06:57 AM        
quote:
160lb rider+ 1.25 60'+131MPH= 5.3s?


You don't know how much I hope this is accurate. He's gone 5.53-5.55 on 1.36-1.38 60's. When the best 60's came there was something else going on that prevented putting a great 1st half of a run together with a great back half. It's not been the same thing every time. Questionable/non existent track prep past the 330', back tire going away, big wheelie, spinning on the big end, air shifter not shifting, motor missing/breakin up, actually running out of fuel because we run just a little fuel in the bike to keep the weight down, These are just some of the things that have happened to Dave to keep him from a good back half. It's going to be a pretty cool timeslip when everything comes together I'm certain.
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01smokes


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posted May 28, 2012 11:33 AM        
quote:
quote:
160lb rider+ 1.25 60'+131MPH= 5.3s?


You don't know how much I hope this is accurate. He's gone 5.53-5.55 on 1.36-1.38 60's. When the best 60's came there was something else going on that prevented putting a great 1st half of a run together with a great back half. It's not been the same thing every time. Questionable/non existent track prep past the 330', back tire going away, big wheelie, spinning on the big end, air shifter not shifting, motor missing/breakin up, actually running out of fuel because we run just a little fuel in the bike to keep the weight down, These are just some of the things that have happened to Dave to keep him from a good back half. It's going to be a pretty cool timeslip when everything comes together I'm certain.


You guys are flying that's for sure!! What shock are you guys running?
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Bueller


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posted May 28, 2012 12:37 PM        
The stock one revalved for sam at 66" and 230, now its 71" with me at 150. Gues its kinda working lol
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smokinstorm


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posted May 28, 2012 01:49 PM        
The shock setup probably couldn't be more off for Dave. It's a minor miracle he's able to do what he does on the bike IMO. I've promised him that the next thing I buy for the 14 is going to be the drag shock from Brock Davidson. Might even need another spring as we bought the revalved shock and spring for Sam as a package deal. I know SmokinZX14 dropped .03 from his 60's by going to that shock and dialing it in properly. I'll take another .03 from our 60' for the $1000 that the shock costs. To quote a famous line from "Dances with Wolves", Good trade.
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mathews


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posted May 28, 2012 01:53 PM        
Hard to believe with the DA being 2500ft that it would be lean
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JZX


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posted May 28, 2012 02:20 PM        
I ran MR12 at two different tracks 1 week apart in two different DA's. My mph was off by 2 and the ET's were the same.

To go from 131 mph in the 8th mile down to 123 is a huge difference.

Not sure the lack of tune could do that- nor would 25 hp.

I would look at the DA and the mph clocks at the two tracks respectively.


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Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'


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smokinstorm


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posted May 28, 2012 03:28 PM        
quote:
Hard to believe with the DA being 2500ft that it would be lean


Believe me, I've gone over this in my head time and time again as well. Here's why I think it's probably lean. Cecil @ HTP tuned the MR9 spot on and not a tad rich as is customary. I wanted as much power as could be had and didn't want to leave any on the table so that's what he did. Hindsight being 20/20 we would probably have been better off leaving it rich. It made power though. Trapping 155 with a 240 pound rider in a 1/4 mile and trapping 131+ in the 1/8th with a 160 pound rider suggests it's making good power. Now, throw in some MR12 on top of this tune that was optimized for MR9. Cecil told me I needed to have the bike retuned or, if I could alter the tune myself, go 5% richer across the board in order to get close. He said to not run the MR12 on the MR9 tune he put in the PC5 as it would be too lean. Now the nasty DA and high temps probably brought the tune back in line a tad allowing us to actually run the fuel without being so lean as to damage the engine. That's what I see going on. Maybe I'm wrong. We're going to try to pull a baseline on the MR12 with the MR9 map assuming it doesn't go so lean on the dyno that it's not safe. I'm going to get to the bottom of this as soon as I'm able. I'll post back the results when I get it tuned to let everyone know what the MR12 does when you're already tuned right on the edge for MR9.
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smokinstorm


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Posts: 500
posted May 28, 2012 03:34 PM        Edited By: smokinstorm on 28 May 2012 22:36
quote:
I ran MR12 at two different tracks 1 week apart in two different DA's. My mph was off by 2 and the ET's were the same.

To go from 131 mph in the 8th mile down to 123 is a huge difference.

Not sure the lack of tune could do that- nor would 25 hp.

I would look at the DA and the mph clocks at the two tracks respectively.




Question: was your bike tuned for MR12? If not, what fuel was it tuned for? I actually suspect that we'd have been better off running the pump gas map with the MR12 as it's really rich compared to the MR9 map.

I use the same site to calculate the DA every time. I have to assume it's accurate. I could calculate it myself from the temp, baro and humidity but I'm old and lazy and just let an online DA calculator do it for me.

I thought about the MPH clocks as well but when another bike was beside Dave ith the same mods we have and just ran away and hid from him from the 330' on, that let's me know for sure we were way down on power that day. If we had run 131, or even 130 that day, it would have been an entirely different race. 123 with Dave is less than stock performance I believe. The bike didn't break up until 2nd gear and got progressively worse towards the end. This explains, to me anyhow, why the bike didn't ET all that far off like the slow MPH would suggest as it made time/distance the first 330' but just faltered badly out the end. The race with the other 14 bore this theory out as well.
____________
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2005 Turbo Busa
2001 GSXR 1000
Looking for a 1985 GS1150E

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