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Thread: Is a pc-5 actually required for aftermarket exhaust systems. |
epd345
Pro
Posts: 1394
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posted May 07, 2012 07:32 PM
Is a pc-5 actually required for aftermarket exhaust systems.
I am considering my options for a full system for my 2012. Is a fuel management chip absolutely necessary? I know smoking and wee ran with out for some time. Is there still a decel back fire with or without a pc-v. Is it safe without one or will it run to lean. Don't want to do any damage. Thanks again for the help.
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
  
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08green
Expert Class
Posts: 187
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posted May 07, 2012 07:43 PM
No im sure smokin went 850s with no pc
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2004 ZX10
2008 ZX14
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bizzsteve
Novice Class
black ZX14R 2012
Posts: 54
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posted May 08, 2012 04:13 AM
If you decide to buy the PCV don't try to buy direct they rip you off, I went to (more power racing) they charged 284.00 w/shipping 100.00 less than dyno jet and they are straight with their info they have no vested intrest in which fuel system you buy. they saved me the money on an auto tuner.
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bizzsteve
Novice Class
black ZX14R 2012
Posts: 54
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posted May 08, 2012 04:15 AM
quote:
If you decide to buy the PCV don't try to buy direct they rip you off, I went to (more power racing) they charged 284.00 w/shipping 100.00 less than dyno jet and they are straight with their info they have no vested intrest in which fuel system you buy. they saved me the money on an auto tuner.
Not needed. Full Yohimura PCV .
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epd345
Pro
Posts: 1394
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posted May 08, 2012 05:14 AM
Bizzsteve. You have a pc-v or no. Which map are you using if you have a pc-v?
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
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mma-tv
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted May 08, 2012 09:17 AM
With a full yoshimura exhaust and no PC on my bike there is one mild decel pop coming down past 3500 rpm. I can live with that.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11403
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posted May 08, 2012 09:27 AM
My .02....
Why spend $16k+ on a bike and exhaust...but not map the fuel properly???
Get a Brock's pipe, pcv, and their supplied map. Done.
Shane
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drewzx-14
Zone Head
Andrew
Posts: 533
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posted May 08, 2012 10:25 AM
+1
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2009 Yamaha R1
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted May 08, 2012 11:40 AM
quote:
My .02....
Why spend $16k+ on a bike and exhaust...but not map the fuel properly???
Get a Brock's pipe, pcv, and their supplied map. Done.
Shane
share, i think sometimes we forget not everyone is trying for a 8 second pass or 200 mph and they don't need the last extra couple hp if its not going to hurt the bike.
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Kawifast
Expert Class
Posts: 184
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posted May 08, 2012 02:55 PM
Not using some form of Fuel Manager after installing a full exhaust system has never been something I have found acceptable, but it seems more and more people do it. The PC or any other fuel manager isn't just about creating more power, it's delivering the correct fueling, AFR's, timing etc to work with the new modifcations. For me, even though I don't race, I rely on the PC to make sure I'm running a properly tuned bike that isn't too lean, or too rich etc, but a good tune for the bike. Seems folks, with the improved OEM ECU's and maps have all but forgottent the value of the PC and the tuner also 
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2012 Kawasaki ZX14-R
2012 BMW S1000RR
2012 BMW K1600GT
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epd345
Pro
Posts: 1394
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posted May 08, 2012 03:57 PM
Kawifast, Im aware of what the powercommander does but I was wondering if the bikes stock electronics were up to the task of controlling the a/f mixture to compensate for the aftermarket pipe.
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3189
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posted May 08, 2012 04:28 PM
It's not necessary. kawi didn't map the gen ii bike as pig rich, so it benefits even less than the gen i zx14.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted May 08, 2012 06:11 PM
The bike will run fine with no PC and a pipe .. Hell i ran 8.52 without the PC .. BUT The PC and a good map always make the bike run better in all RPM ranges.. The new 14 is different than the old zx14 in the fact that it is mapped better from the factory to start with .. But still it's very clear that a good map like Brocks street map does make more HP in the complete RPM range .. You have to look at the complete picture here and not just the high RPM HP reading .. What is under the top numbers counts just as much as peak power numbers .. If you can shorten the time the bike Revs from 3500 RPMs to 10800 RPMs the bike will be faster even if peak HP numbers remain unchanged .. If you look at the factory A/F you will see lows and highs ..A good map removes all those lows and highs and makes a better running bike in town or on the strip.. ..You pay 1000.00+ for a pipe ..300 more for a PC and a good map is not a bad deal.. But like i said the bike will run without it ..Buy the pipe and add the PC later if you want ..
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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mma-tv
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted May 08, 2012 06:28 PM
That's what I'm going to do, get the PC and dyno tune later.
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Wheelie
Needs a life
Old Man
Posts: 6902
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posted May 08, 2012 06:33 PM
quote:
The bike will run fine with no PC and a pipe .. Hell i ran 8.52 without the PC .. BUT The PC and a good map always make the bike run better in all RPM ranges.. The new 14 is different than the old zx14 in the fact that it is mapped better from the factory to start with .. But still it's very clear that a good map like Brocks street map does make more HP in the complete RPM range .. You have to look at the complete picture here and not just the high RPM HP reading .. What is under the top numbers counts just as much as peak power numbers .. If you can shorten the time the bike Revs from 3500 RPMs to 10800 RPMs the bike will be faster even if peak HP numbers remain unchanged .. If you look at the factory A/F you will see lows and highs ..A good map removes all those lows and highs and makes a better running bike in town or on the strip.. ..You pay 1000.00+ for a pipe ..300 more for a PC and a good map is not a bad deal.. But like i said the bike will run without it ..Buy the pipe and add the PC later if you want ..
that is perfect advice...
wee
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MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
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posted May 08, 2012 10:59 PM
quote:
It's not necessary. kawi didn't map the gen ii bike as pig rich, so it benefits even less than the gen i zx14.
The 06-07's weren't so bad, but the 08-11's with the 3rd cat in the collector were sick rich from the factory, a pc and exhaust definately helped them. I've always ran a pc or some other fuel manager with exhaust changes, but it sounds like with the 14R you might not need one?
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bizzsteve
Novice Class
black ZX14R 2012
Posts: 54
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posted May 09, 2012 05:22 AM
PCV
quote:
Bizzsteve. You have a pc-v or no. Which map are you using if you have a pc-v?
Yes PCV waiting for appointment to get map at scott power sport my local dealer .
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dakota9498
Pro
Posts: 1173
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posted May 09, 2012 06:05 AM
For what its worth, here are my $.02. I am paranoid about stuff like this becuase I usually have bad luck. My thing is that we have seen the AFR without a PCV on the dyno and a little on the strip at wide open throttle and it looks ok. My problem is, out on the street you will be cruising at a steady RPM, 3k or 4k or whatever, maybe that spot is already a little lean and then factor in ram air at speed then what happens? And you mentioned the electronics compensating for the exhaust. Well that really isn't possible, the bike doesn't have a system like a car that can compensate for differences in AFR with an O2 sensor. The only thing that the bike has is a inlet pressure sensor and a intlet temperature sensor. It may add a little fuel with more pressure or little more fuel with colder temps. But again it brings up another what if. What if it is hot outside, pressure is little lower and the temps a little higher, and it takes out a little fuel. Like I said, I just always look for the worst case scenario and prepare for that (I guess that is some of the military instilled in me) because if everything was always the best case scenario then we wouldn't have a forum for discussion. Again, that is just my $.02.
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2008 ZX14
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. ~Mark Twain
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epd345
Pro
Posts: 1394
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posted May 09, 2012 11:38 AM
Thanks for the all the advice guys. Im leaning toward a Brocks system with PC. Think Im going to wait till the bike has 2k miles first.
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
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Kawifast
Expert Class
Posts: 184
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posted May 09, 2012 12:21 PM
quote:
Thanks for the all the advice guys. Im leaning toward a Brocks system with PC. Think Im going to wait till the bike has 2k miles first.
Better yet run the pipe with with the stock ECU and factory map for 2K and give everyone yet another perspective
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2012 Kawasaki ZX14-R
2012 BMW S1000RR
2012 BMW K1600GT
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epd345
Pro
Posts: 1394
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posted May 09, 2012 01:14 PM
I think Im gonna run the stock exhaust for 2K before I upgrade. Thats what I meant.
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
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gilberjj
Needs a job
Friend of Fast
Posts: 3189
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posted May 09, 2012 01:47 PM
quote:
I think Im gonna run the stock exhaust for 2K before I upgrade. Thats what I meant.
Why wait???
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epd345
Pro
Posts: 1394
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posted May 09, 2012 02:49 PM
Well first Brock's has no gen IV systems in stock. Plus I don't have the funds yet. I may just save up for a CT.
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2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister
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bizzsteve
Novice Class
black ZX14R 2012
Posts: 54
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posted May 11, 2012 06:27 AM
epd345 Before you make the decision on a Brock's find someone who has one look at it listen to it. If your not racing it may not be the best choice. I understand from this forum that
if your racing your bike Brock's is for you, but if you have to look at it and listen all the time make sure your happy with it. I made the mistake of putting a pipe on CBR 954 that after 2 weeks I ended up selling on EBAY. Finally I purchased an Akropovic system that I loved.
Take your time look and listen to all the bikes you can.
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