posted January 01, 2012 01:01 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Jan 2012 21:41
- Guhl Motors 2012 ZX-14R ECU Testing, Part 1 - As some of you are aware, we had Guhl Motors reflash Racheal's Gen 1 ECU. Guhl extended the rev limit, and removed the factory top speed limiter(s). The unit works flawlessly, and customer service was fantastic with a 24 hour turnaround time.
After seeing that the new 2012 14R has wheel speed sensors, I knew that I did not want to mess with a speedohealer product or similar this time around. I contacted Guhl and offered to test their ecu mods on the new bike. I really want to see 200 mph on this bike, in basically street trim, so I felt that ECU mods would be a step in the right direction.
In part 1 of the testing, I wanted to focus on the two basic mods that we had done to Racheal's ECU: A raised rev limit, and removed speed limiters. I shipped my ECU off to Guhl on Wednesday, and I had it back in my hands on Friday:
Fortunately I am only a day's shipping away from Guhl. I contacted my dyno operator, and he said we could plan for noon on New Year's day. He figured that even with a late night he would be recovered by then.
So, I awoke this morning, and put my own data logger on the bike...just to back up any dyno readings, if need be:
By 11am I was done setting the bike up. I figured I better call the dyno operator, in case he had a long night of partying, and needed a blood transfusion. Good news! All was a go...I actually expected no issue as Geoff has been great to work with.
Anyway, I am editing the pics right now, but we had great results, which I will post shortly...
posted January 01, 2012 01:29 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Jan 2012 21:35
First, I wanted to test the extended rpm limit. Extending the rpm can be important in LSR or even at the dragstrip. Not only does it allow you to run more gearing (think torque multiplication), but you can push through the timing lights without hitting the limiter. How many times have you had to shift right before the lights?? On our other Gen 1 14's, the limiter kicked in at around 10950 rpm. Don told me that the new bike had the same hard coded rpm limit as the Gen 1.
After some soul searching, and talking with some folks smarter than me, I had Guhl extend the limit by +400 rpm...I wanted to start out conservative:
posted January 01, 2012 01:57 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Jan 2012 21:58
I had thought that we might shut the dyno down at 200 mph in testing the speed limiter. What I didn't figure on was just how short the tire would be, at 30 psi and strapped down.
Well, the 186 mph limit is gone....
198.53 on stock gearing, with extended revs. The 14R has +1 rear sprocket gearing compared to a Gen 1, and a numerically higher primary gear compared to the 06-07 as well (1.541 vs 1.556).
I will measure the tire with full psi and not strapped down tomorrow. On the dyno the circumference was just over 73", which really limits mph! Nonetheless, I was happy to see the limiter gone. It's actually still there, but up around 300 mph...I joked with Don that it would likely be good enough for year or two!
The power curve is where things get interesting...
posted January 01, 2012 02:14 PM
The wait is killing me, I just want to see if its still pulling at the limiter, or if it goes flat.
____________
06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
posted January 01, 2012 02:33 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Jan 2012 22:34
quote:The wait is killing me, I just want to see if its still pulling at the limiter, or if it goes flat.
Well, Cody, power did drop off at the limiter....but the a/f ratio also tanked up there!
Look at how fat it got up top!! That is a power killer, and the power starts to taper right when the a/f goes fat....With proper tuning, what will happen?? We will soon find out!! This week I am going to install a 2011 10R Power Commander. And when weather permits I will be back on the dyno..
My ecu also has a little more timing advance now. I couldn't test it properly as the temps and humidity were not good...the bike was down 3 hp even where the timing changes were not in effect. Rest assured that I will get the bike on the dyno soon, and take full advantage of all mods.
That brings us to what will be part 2 and beyond. We are looking at properly testing the timing advance under similar conditions, opening the secondary flies sooner...and more.
quote:The wait is killing me, I just want to see if its still pulling at the limiter, or if it goes flat.
Well, Cody, power did drop off at the limiter....but the a/f ratio also tanked up there!
Look at how fat it got up top!! That is a power killer, and the power starts to taper right when the a/f goes fat....With proper tuning, what will happen?? We will soon find out!! This week I am going to install a 2011 10R Power Commander. And when weather permits I will be back on the dyno..
My ecu also has a little more timing advance now. I couldn't test it properly as the temps and humidity were not good...the bike was down 3 hp even where the timing changes were not in effect. Rest assured that I will get the bike on the dyno soon, and take full advantage of all mods.
That brings us to what will be part 2 and beyond. We are looking at properly testing the timing advance under similar conditions, opening the secondary flies sooner...and more.
Shane
looks like the flies are closing back up to some degree after about 8k rpm.... I would ask Don to take a look at that also...
posted January 01, 2012 02:59 PM
Nice, can't wait till you get the power commander functioning.
____________
06 zx14, 65", lowered, muzzy pipe, pcIII, air shifter, Litz revalve, Adams cut seat, OSR cut pan 87 pump gas.
posted January 01, 2012 03:13 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 1 Jan 2012 23:15
quote:Nice, can't wait till you get the power commander functioning.
Here is the difference in uncorrected power, to give an idea of much worse the air was today...
You can also see that the computer did not compensate fully for the air...look at how much fatter the a/f was...likely due to the humidity. The bike does not sense humidity.
I was gonna say that, now I hafta come up with something else .............
Uh ................... GREAT INFO, Shane!!!
One question - any idea on cost for the masses?
____________
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
posted January 01, 2012 04:50 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Jan 2012 00:50
quote:
quote:good stuff here
wee
HEY!!!
I was gonna say that, now I hafta come up with something else .............
Uh ................... GREAT INFO, Shane!!!
One question - any idea on cost for the masses?
Cost right now is $375, and that includes return shipping, follow up support, and reflashes as needed (within reason, of course). I am working with Don to develop and test more features. There is more to come.
posted January 01, 2012 07:03 PM
$375 sounds fair, do you have any idea about adding a custom tune? Will you be able to add a PCV (when available), or are you locked into having him do it through the ECU?
____________
2012 Black 14R -> Completely done!
posted January 01, 2012 07:39 PM
Before I did any leaning out of the a/f, I would stick a wideband or a data logger on that thing and go pop it up to about 125 or at least top it out in 3rd as this would be as fast as is easily attainable in a populated area, and see what the a/f is.. I would think kawi tunes these WITH a pressurized airbox, which normal dynoing can't duplicate..
I might be completely off base, but just a thought before you go.leaning it out a bunch.
Expert Class
My 12R gone but not forgotten
Posts: 218
posted January 01, 2012 07:40 PM
Hey Shane has Guhl said anything about having software to tune your bike yourself for a little more money. Because I am interested in this, but I don't do LSR and I won't hit 186 in the 1/4 in this lifetime and I have spray can compensate for the RPM bump. Would be awesome to not have to have a PCV and just have a modded ECU.
____________
2012 ZX-14R SE
2002 VULCAN MEAN STREAK (11.41 @ 114 best 1/4)
I BLEED GREEN
quote:Hey Shane has Guhl said anything about having software to tune your bike yourself for a little more money. Because I am interested in this, but I don't do LSR and I won't hit 186 in the 1/4 in this lifetime and I have spray can compensate for the RPM bump. Would be awesome to not have to have a PCV and just have a modded ECU.
Expert Class
My 12R gone but not forgotten
Posts: 218
posted January 02, 2012 05:59 AM
Brock since you deal with Don alot to are you and him thinking about some kind of package deal to tune through the ECU?
____________
2012 ZX-14R SE
2002 VULCAN MEAN STREAK (11.41 @ 114 best 1/4)
I BLEED GREEN
posted January 02, 2012 06:16 AM
what about the ram air? if the bike was moving wouldnt it lean out the AF?
____________
2002 ZX12R
2004 ZX10R
2012 ZX14R
posted January 02, 2012 06:38 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Jan 2012 14:40
quote:Before I did any leaning out of the a/f, I would stick a wideband or a data logger on that thing and go pop it up to about 125 or at least top it out in 3rd as this would be as fast as is easily attainable in a populated area, and see what the a/f is.. I would think kawi tunes these WITH a pressurized airbox, which normal dynoing can't duplicate..
I might be completely off base, but just a thought before you go.leaning it out a bunch.
quote:what about the ram air? if the bike was moving wouldnt it lean out the AF?
That is entirely dependent on the particular bike and set up. I barely see any change on the Gen1 14's. At any rate, I am not too concerned with the A/F readings right now. All of the numbers are plenty safe. When I do tune it I will be testing it on the road with the logger as well. I did test it on the road yesterday, when it was cold out, and the #'s agreed with the prior dyno readings.
Shane
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posted January 01, 2012 01:01 PM
Edited By: 
Good news! All was a go...I actually expected no issue as Geoff has been great to work with. 
