1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
|
posted October 10, 2011 06:39 PM
quote:
No he's not, but he has been building and riding big motor busas for a minute.. He just does'nt focus on Kaws(you met him)before you tuned my bike in- BTW, thanks-got me out of the 70's.
when he get to an hour i'll watch out for him.. lol
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
  
|
1badzx12r
Needs a life
Posts: 8321
|
posted October 10, 2011 06:42 PM
quote:
If you read any of my past posts you would know i tried a 30 shot and went 8.53 @ 163 on my 06 zx14 ... My fastest all motor pass on the 06 was 8.77@ 154 ... My 09 that never had the bottle on it went 8.76@155 ... Keep up sonny ... 
what for just a bunch of numbers .. gramps
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted October 10, 2011 07:35 PM
quote:
The "Certificate of Origin" is a 1 page document that comes from the factory to the dealer on every new bike. This document, among other things, lists crankshaft horsepower and weight. You can ask your dealer for a copy when purchasing your bike.
Gen One ZX14 (2006-2007): 190 HP
Gen Two Zx14 (2008-2011): 193 HP
If the Gen Three ZX14R is producing 210HP, we have the 2nd largest HP increase in Kawasaki History. Recent History of Kawasaki's claimed crankshaft HP (without Ram Air effect). I've owned each of these bikes (except 12 Zx14), and have the Certificate of origin for each.
84 Ninja 900: 113 HP
86 Ninja 1000: 125HP
88 Ninja ZX10: 137 HP
90 Ninja Zx11: 147 HP
00 Ninja Zx12R: 165 HP
06 ZX14: 190 HP
08 ZX14 193HP
12 ZX14R: 210HP
I think the Zx 12 was rated at 183HP
|
JZX
Zone Head
Posts: 943
|
posted October 10, 2011 07:39 PM
 Edited By: JZX on 11 Oct 2011 03:40
My ZX12 made around 160 sae stock(to the tire), so the 165 is incorrect
____________
06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
|
gremlin
Novice Class
Posts: 87
|
posted October 10, 2011 07:50 PM
Sorry for the error on the ZX12R...both the 2000 and 2002 (slight redesign) versions have 178 HP at the crank according to the Certificate of Origin.
|
MJ
Zone Head
Posts: 560
|
posted October 10, 2011 08:02 PM
The factory hp numbers are just more advertising fodder, the only way we're truly going to know how the new 14 really performs is when it gets out in the real world with real people. So guys start buying these bikes and let the rest of us know if they're worth it or not! lol
|
justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
|
posted October 10, 2011 09:15 PM
Edited By: justoyz2 on 11 Oct 2011 05:17
Zx14Mike,
I think your numbers are off, my Cert of Orgin for my zx12 was 178 which equals to 151 rwhp (15% DT loss) with a muzzy pipe it made 165 on avg dyno. I changed to an Ackro and pickedup another 4ish... 169....
For the record, the 2012 zx14 is the Gen 2, the 06-11 is the Gen 1.... my 06 was the fastest zx14 I have owned... not sure on the hp it was never dynoed; my 07 made 175 with a brock and his map.
I have said this previously, if the bike only makes 210 crank hp, it will produce around 18ish rwhp.... that's not good, because my 2011 zx10 makes that (unleashed). Now I am not saying that the increase when compared to the previous generation is nothing to laugh at.... but bang for the buck, that 1k will still run faster qtr over the newer zx14.... yeah I know it has alot more tq, but there's that 100 lbs difference
____________
2012 zx14R-blue,2012 zx14R-black, 2014 zx14Trbo, 2011 zx10R, 2007 zx10 Turbo.....
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted October 10, 2011 09:48 PM
quote:
Zx14Mike,
I think your numbers are off, my Cert of Orgin for my zx12 was 178 which equals to 151 rwhp (15% DT loss) with a muzzy pipe it made 165 on avg dyno. I changed to an Ackro and pickedup another 4ish... 169....
For the record, the 2012 zx14 is the Gen 2, the 06-11 is the Gen 1.... my 06 was the fastest zx14 I have owned... not sure on the hp it was never dynoed; my 07 made 175 with a brock and his map.
I have said this previously, if the bike only makes 210 crank hp, it will produce around 18ish rwhp.... that's not good, because my 2011 zx10 makes that (unleashed). Now I am not saying that the increase when compared to the previous generation is nothing to laugh at.... but bang for the buck, that 1k will still run faster qtr over the newer zx14.... yeah I know it has alot more tq, but there's that 100 lbs difference
I could be wrong with 183 for ZX 12...........2 people have said 178 so that is probably right...........I just knew that 165 was not correct for rated HP though.
I just cant see Kawasaki putting out a high priced redesigned flagship model that doesnt put out 10 more HP than the ZX 10........because I think we all agree it would need about 10 horses to make up for the extra 100 pounds its carrying.............its not that hard to get 20 more horsepower out of 1441cc............hell they could easily get a reliable 40 horsepower out of 1441 cc if they wanted to.
|
justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
|
posted October 10, 2011 09:57 PM
I agree somewhat, but the new 14 will produce more HP than claimed 210 crank HPs.
I believe the bike will be neutered and there will be more power found, we all know that a 1441cc engine with good cams(nothing real large) can produce around 210 to the ground on an avg dyno. The cam lift numbers are larger than the current aftermarket (drop-ins).
Kawi did the same thing with the new 10, the cam numbers are larger than the aftermarket cams. Yes, lift and duration..... This bike is a monster..... wait an see.... I predict there will be many busa owners jumping ship.....
And as alway, as another member said, Suz will wait until Kawi show it hand and try to produce something faster(which is smart), but not innovative.... now they have to answer two foes on two different fronts.... the liter class and the liter plus class..... BMW shouted and Kawi SCREAMED.... then a SCREAMMMMMEEEEDD a little bit louder and unleashed a bigger, badder BEAST
____________
2012 zx14R-blue,2012 zx14R-black, 2014 zx14Trbo, 2011 zx10R, 2007 zx10 Turbo.....
|
blackbullet76
Pro
Posts: 1134
|
posted October 10, 2011 10:06 PM
I think the discussion should be about torque numbers. 4mm longer stroke should yield some more low end grunt!
____________
2007 ZX-14 black
Brocks s-meg exhaust
PCIII w/track map
BMC race filter
Flies removed
16 tooth front sprocket
Speedohealer
APE cam chain tensioner
Vortex rearsets
|
kneedragon1962
Novice Class
Posts: 36
|
posted October 11, 2011 12:47 AM
I agree. A 10hp gain at peak is nice, but it's not spectacularly significant. A 10% gain in torque, all the way for 4k to 10, tapering off at the end - that's significant. That's real world power.
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDo_FIWeDNk
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted October 11, 2011 04:13 AM
My 2000 zx12r was rated at 178 and put down 162 rwhp. That's a 16 hp loss to the rear wheel. This bike should be very similar for drive line losses.
This bike puts down 191 to the back wheel as delivered (dont ask)..... if you add 16 hp to that that's 207 crank HP.
Add the ram-air assist and that's 215-220. (I'm only guessing on the ram air assist)
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted October 11, 2011 04:25 AM
Now, being that the zx14r is 191 hp at the back wheel if you were to add our 47mm throttle bodies that's at least another 8 hp. A slip on muffler another 8 hp. Add our super sport head that's another 8 hp. Add mr12 fuel and that's another 8 hp.
I see this bike making over 220 rwhp with our Super Sport head and throttle body package when running mr12 fuel.
After all the gen 1 2006-2011 SS package makes 210 rwhp. I would have to believe the head is a little better and the exhaust system is a little better so the gains with a SS head and TB package may not be as much as the gen 1 zx14's. But that's a guess.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
|
posted October 11, 2011 06:49 AM
Look guys my 06 and 09 zx14 made about 174 HP pipe and tunned ... Both ran mid 8.70s .. Those two bikes made about 162 HP stock ..
Now look at the 2012 ZX14R .. It's 1441 with a new and hand ported head , bigger cams .. No way this thing makes less than 20 HP more than the 06 to 2011 ZX14 .. So 20 Hp is a big jump over the old ZX14 .. 162 + 20 = 182 HP STOCK .. I'm betting it will be a little more than 182 after break in ( a 1000 miles or so ) With no pipe and no tunning this bike should out run a piped and tunned 2006 to 2011 ZX14 in a roll on race .. Now add a pipe and tune ( lets say 15 HP gain ) 197 HP to the tire ...Ricky feels the HP claimed by Kawi is under rated as do a few others i have talked to that are in the know about this new bike ..You could see this bike making over 200 with bolt ons on pump gas .. Now keep in mind that i ran 8.70s with only a 174 HP .. What do you think i could run with 200 HP ?
Let also not forget this bike will have something a zx10 will never have .. TQ !!! and loads of it ...Lets also not forget the ZX14 is much much easier to drag race than a liter bike .. This bike is going to be stupid fast , sorry Brock i had to use your words ..
____________
Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
|
BLK ICE
Pro
we'll leave the light on for u
Posts: 1709
|
posted October 11, 2011 07:03 AM
"What do you think i could run with 200 HP ?"
5.5-5.4 at 66- 68"
____________
Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, N/A Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, Nitrous Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
Bikeland 1/8 mile 5 sec.N/A Stock Motor Club Member.
Repersenting: BLACK ICE PERFORMANCE and NO QUARTER MOTORSPORTS
Nitrous and Tires Sponsored by: Custom Specialties Cycles
Dyno Tuned by: Garron of ADAMS PERFORMANCE. http://www.adamsperformance.net/
BlackIce Performance: Honor, Freedom, Love of Country!
(I am open to Sponsorship and Product Testing and Review. Contact BlackIce Performance at blackice_performance@yahoo.com) or BlackIce Perf on Facebook
|
bradkong12
Expert Class
Posts: 250
|
posted October 11, 2011 07:06 AM
bikeland 1/8 mile 5 sec. stock motor club?????
whats that about?????
____________
bradkong12
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted October 11, 2011 07:08 AM
So Jim are you planning on getting one?
BTW just going by the factory ratings this should put out 32 more horsepower than a ZX 12 and 17 more than a ZX 14.............now if its underated like Ricky says that could be REAL interesting.
With slip ons and 47mm throtlebodies it should be a real beast!!!!
|
BLK ICE
Pro
we'll leave the light on for u
Posts: 1709
|
posted October 11, 2011 07:20 AM
Edited By: BLK ICE on 11 Oct 2011 15:30
quote:
bikeland 1/8 mile 5 sec. stock motor club?????
whats that about?????
To go 5.x sec. in the 1/8 mile on stock motor with a hand clutch is a mile stone or right of passage to be consider a good drag racer. Post a video of you making a '5.x sec. stock motor with hand clutch' pass and your in the club.
I did it @ 300+lbs so anyone can potentialy do it.
____________
Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, N/A Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
Fastest Stock Motor, Stock Bodywork, Hand Clutch, Nitrous Super Heavy Hitter on the Planet!
Bikeland 1/8 mile 5 sec.N/A Stock Motor Club Member.
Repersenting: BLACK ICE PERFORMANCE and NO QUARTER MOTORSPORTS
Nitrous and Tires Sponsored by: Custom Specialties Cycles
Dyno Tuned by: Garron of ADAMS PERFORMANCE. http://www.adamsperformance.net/
BlackIce Performance: Honor, Freedom, Love of Country!
(I am open to Sponsorship and Product Testing and Review. Contact BlackIce Performance at blackice_performance@yahoo.com) or BlackIce Perf on Facebook
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted October 12, 2011 12:44 PM
quote:
quote:
Who really puts a lot of thought into what the bike will do in stock form or how much it weighs bone stock. No one on this forumn has a completely unmolested stock bike. What remains to be seen is how much has yet to be unleashed.
A possible catch: with the new head being worked over and polished already and all the other engine improvements made... there may not be as much to be gained as from the ZX-14 engine. To some extent, this bike is already unleashed out the factory.
With the exception of those 44mm throttle bodies I think your probably right............with 89 more CC's, bigger cams, a good head and exhaust that breathes better that thing is begging for 47mm throttle bodies...............i'll bet thats an easy 8-10 horsepower gain!!!
|
ZX14Mike
Zone Head
Posts: 891
|
posted October 12, 2011 12:47 PM
How much torque you think the new Zx 14R will gain over the Gen 1?...............would about 10 be close..............anyone think the torque will be close to Roys 1530?
|
JZX
Zone Head
Posts: 943
|
posted October 12, 2011 12:51 PM
I bet torque will be 115-118 bone stock to the tire.
____________
06 ZX14 65"
Best 1/8 mile 5.68@126.4 on a 1.41 60'
Best 1/4 mile 8.87@152.7 on a 1.47 60'
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted October 12, 2011 01:39 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 12 Oct 2011 21:44
quote:
So Jim are you planning on getting one?
BTW just going by the factory ratings this should put out 32 more horsepower than a ZX 12 and 17 more than a ZX 14.............now if its underated like Ricky says that could be REAL interesting.
With slip ons and 47mm throtlebodies it should be a real beast!!!!
Well, the new cases are tempting. Taller deck, better bay to bay breathing. Larger main journal size.
The crank is 1mm less than I run now. but maybe I can get the stroke to 68mm or more now?
I haven't actually seen a head yet to compare the ports. The throttle bodies are 44 but we can most likely bore them out to 47 like the gen 1's.
But were running custom 50mm throttle bodies with billet manifolds.
The exhaust ports are supposed to be bigger, but were running 30mm exhaust valves and a custom 1-7/8" primary tube 4 into 1 header I made with LARGE cnc exhaust ports.
Right now were very close to 280 hp at 11,800 rpm with this 3x5 1570cc engine.
I dont know what I'm going to do other than run this engine for the rest of the season at least. Now that we have a dry sump on the engine I'm expecting to have the rod bearings live in this stroker motor at 12,000 rpm. Its been a fist fight all the way trying to keep it alive at 12,000 rpm and 66mm stroke.
Here's the header...
Here's the exhaust port compared to stock...
Here's an early dyno chart from a few builds and cams ago....
Here's the head and 50mm prototype throttle bodies that are on the bike now......
A Mastercam screen shot of the throttle bodies in design stage....
This is what the bike looks like short for land speed racing...
So my point is is that we are still making more and more power with the old engine and have a lot invested. So if Kawasaki was to step-up with some of the new parts for us and if the 50mm throttle bodies fit on like i expect them to and if the new head is actually better in the ways we need it to be better then i would use many parts from the gen 2 engine.
But we would still need to put the bronze seats in the head and bore the buckets wells for the 2011 zx10 29mm buckets, develop new CNC ports, etc. etc.
So I really cant say either way right now.... just dont know.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted October 14, 2011 03:43 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who really puts a lot of thought into what the bike will do in stock form or how much it weighs bone stock. No one on this forumn has a completely unmolested stock bike. What remains to be seen is how much has yet to be unleashed.
A possible catch: with the new head being worked over and polished already and all the other engine improvements made... there may not be as much to be gained as from the ZX-14 engine. To some extent, this bike is already unleashed out the factory.
With the exception of those 44mm throttle bodies I think your probably right............with 89 more CC's, bigger cams, a good head and exhaust that breathes better that thing is begging for 47mm throttle bodies...............i'll bet thats an easy 8-10 horsepower gain!!!
Mike, I think your right about the 47's. Maybe even 12 hp.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
|
posted October 19, 2011 04:48 AM
Sorry, whoever it was that sent a pm, it disapeared before I could respond..... can you resend.....
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC