1badzx12r
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posted August 05, 2011 01:55 PM
zx14 dummy balancer shafts
well i installed a set into my streetbike went for a 20 mile ride . now it vibrates like a buzz saw going down the highway ..not recommended for street use is my thinking now..works great on my track bike.. if i ever go back into it i'm re-installing the balancers ..
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1badzx12r
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posted August 05, 2011 02:34 PM
has anybody used these rods
http://www.crower.com/billet-crowerods-kawasaki-zx14-06-08-4-429-c-toc.html
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osr
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Posts: 459
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posted August 05, 2011 05:28 PM
We have sold lots of dummy shafts and have never had any real complaints like that. Both Street and strip applications but no one complained that it was that noticeable -- HOpefully you don't have anything else wrong or loose. Not saying its not possible but just haven't had many complaints.
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BLK ICE
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posted August 05, 2011 05:54 PM
What gains can be exspected from this mod on stock motor or spray?
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1badzx12r
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posted August 05, 2011 06:10 PM
quote:
We have sold lots of dummy shafts and have never had any real complaints like that. Both Street and strip applications but no one complained that it was that noticeable -- HOpefully you don't have anything else wrong or loose. Not saying its not possible but just haven't had many complaints.
i have sensitive hands due to corporal tunnel any vibration kills my hands numb
everything else is great ..this engine is a tested engine thats been run for 10k miles and 1000's of passes ..took it apart to have a look and freshen it up only difference was the dummy shafts.. maybe this 1 them engines that the balancers are needed because something else from the factory is out of whack.. i replaced the flywheel to no help.. but i'll take another look tomorrow cause it only vibrates from 3 to 6 k rpm but thats highway cruise area
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1badzx12r
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posted August 05, 2011 06:12 PM
quote:
What gains can be exspected from this mod on stock motor or spray?
its for less moving parts and less to oil . not much hp gains if any ..
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osr
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posted August 05, 2011 06:16 PM
BLK ICE -- main mod reason is to boost oil pressure since you dont have lube the balancer gears. it also takes about 6lbs out of the motor.
1bad -- yeah you might want to double check a few things motor mount bolts etc.. usually don't notice much vibration. Good Luck
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1badzx12r
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posted August 05, 2011 06:22 PM
quote:
1bad -- yeah you might want to double check a few things motor mount bolts etc.. usually don't notice much vibration. Good Luck
motor mount bolts are to spec per service manual.. and its not a wheel or chain issue..its from the engine i can rev it up from idle and feel it .. super quiet sounding no rattles or knocks .. i just got a feeling only fix is gonna be the balancers back in
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kawasakijockey
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posted August 06, 2011 03:28 AM
 Edited By: kawasakijockey on 6 Aug 2011 11:34
Here is a little info on balance shafts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft
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2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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1badzx12r
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posted August 06, 2011 04:16 AM
quote:
Here is a little info on balance shafts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft
i became a believer yesterday in some engines got to have them and some are right from the factory and you can get by without them .. i've got 2 bikes and both have balancers removed 1 vibrates and 1 doesn't ..and the 1 vibrating didn't vibrate when it had the balancer.. fukk if i know
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1badzx12r
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posted August 06, 2011 04:21 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 6 Aug 2011 12:34
quote:
This vibration is generated because the movement of the connecting rods in an even-firing four-cylinder inline engine is not symmetrical throughout the crankshaft rotation; thus during a given period of crankshaft rotation, the descending and ascending pistons are not always completely opposed in their acceleration, giving rise to a net vertical inertial force twice in each revolution whose intensity increases quadratically with RPM, no matter how closely the components are matched for weight
so somebody did a shitty job on crankshaft rod journals i take it .. or the rods are not match length .. hehe
quote:
There is some debate as to how much power the twin balance shafts cost the engine. The basic figure given is usually around 15 hp
but for 15 hp i'll help it vibrate
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kawasakijockey
Pro
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posted August 06, 2011 04:36 AM
I dont believe its 15hp though.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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Y2KZX12R
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posted August 06, 2011 05:23 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 6 Aug 2011 13:26
Basically in short, removing them reduces the rotating mass and the engine revs quicker. You can see a faster ET in drag racing but you may not see a faster speed in land speed racing.
In a dynojet dyno (inertia dyno) it will show more hp with them removed but on a real dyno (water brake) holding the engine at a particular engine speed you will not see an increase in torque at any given rpm.
Removing them has zero effect on actual "balancing" of the engine. All 4 cyl in line engines are neutral balanced. As long as the crank is balanced properly (and they are from the factory) and all the rods and pistons are balanced to weigh the same, your good.
As far as the perceived vibration.... with the balancers removed you will notice the vibration more in a small range of rpm more than other rpms. It can move around where as you feel vibration in the foot pegs at one rpm and you feel it in the bars at a different rpm and maybe in your seat at another rpm. Each part of the bike has a different resonant frequency and if the engines resonant frequency matches that part of the bike then that part of the bike will vibrate badly. If its the handle bars you feel it in and want to try and solve the problem there, then try changing the resonant frequency of the bars.
You can change the length of the bars and/or change the bar ends. This will effectively change the RF of the bars so they vibrate at a different engine rpm. Typically reducing the length and or mass will raise the RF and the rpm where you feel the vibration in the bars. Or you can change the sprocket gearing to move the cruising rpms away from the rpms that the bars vibrate at. But changing the sprockets effects the performance of the bike so most guys wouldn't want to do that, especially if they have a favorite gearing they like for drag racing etc.
Try to get the RF of the bars above your normal cruising speed.
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Y2KZX12R
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1badzx12r
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posted August 06, 2011 05:47 AM
Edited By: 1badzx12r on 6 Aug 2011 13:55
quote:
As far as the perceived vibration.... with the balancers removed you will notice the vibration more in a small range of rpm more than other rpms. It can move around where as you feel vibration in the foot pegs at one rpm and you feel it in the bars at a different rpm and maybe in your seat at another rpm. .
we got this issue of the vibration changing from 1 part to another ..if it was in 1 spot i would live with it .. this engine had no vibration with the balancers in it ..i street road it for around 10k miles ..smooth as silk .. removed balancers and it a girls wet dream machine .. and like i say its just this motor .. but it kills my hands .. only cure than rebuilding the whole bike to move the vibration around is re-install the balancers ..
anything under 3k is good to go on the bars..yes i taught about gearing to lower the RPM range but to much work every weekend on a multi purpose bike.... i may just redesign the whole project later after results of ET's .. but i like street riding it to much even 2 up .. me and the wife ride 100 miles to breakfast on sunday mornings on it
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dubious
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posted August 06, 2011 10:10 AM
load the clip on tubes with silicone.
On dirt bike we use whats called a bar snake.
http://www.barsnake.com/
I also got a mild case of carpel that started this year, and I refuse to let it stop me from riding my bikes.
After a 7 hr day my fingers were still numb 5 days later in fact, so I have started physio therapy and I do my own excercises to stretch the tendons as well.
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kawasakijockey
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posted August 06, 2011 11:17 AM
Most 4 cylinder bike engines vibrate more between 4 and 7 thousand rpm if I remember correctly.
____________
Get on the shortbus boys 'cause its time to get schooled.
2007 ZX-14
1.38 60ft
9.03 @ 149mph
8.95 @153 small shot n2o
8.68 @160mph 5lbs boost
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1badzx12r
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posted August 06, 2011 11:58 AM
quote:
Most 4 cylinder bike engines vibrate more between 4 and 7 thousand rpm if I remember correctly.
4 to 7 ...3 to 6 .. what da hell ..
i've changed flywheel. clutch basket inner and outer. bearings, bushings fibers ,steels . i give up
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RICH CRAFT 1
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posted August 06, 2011 04:59 PM
Edited By: RICH CRAFT 1 on 7 Aug 2011 01:03
I pull them out of my bike and after a short time of street riding I pulled the engine back out and replaced them. I guess if you had a drag race only bike it would be okay but the vibration was more than I wanted to deal with. A V8 engine is smoother and easier to bounce but even they have harmonic balancers and I don't see many people pulling them off. you can put the top balancer in with a motor in the bike and it will take about half the vibration out. the ZX 12 had one balancer and you get almost the same results
Ken
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miketmmns
Expert Class
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posted August 06, 2011 08:48 PM
quote:
has anybody used these rods
http://www.crower.com/billet-crowerods-kawasaki-zx14-06-08-4-429-c-toc.html
I saw those rods and was wondering how good they are anybody using them yet?
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1badzx12r
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posted August 06, 2011 09:32 PM
quote:
. you can put the top balancer in with a motor in the bike and it will take about half the vibration out. Ken
thats my next step ken .. the front 1 can wait till something goes opps
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dubious
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posted August 07, 2011 11:55 AM
Talk to Dwayne at Cycle Concepts.
I think he has used crower stuff.
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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1badzx12r
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posted August 10, 2011 10:43 AM
ok took the engine apart and took the dummy shafts out.. re-installed the OEM balancers and went for a test ride ..motor as smooth as silk.. this motor just was not gonna work with the dummies .. also on a side note i purchaced a set of cases and learnt that KHI uses 2 differant size of thrust washers ..had to order the thick ones ..
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06redzx14
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posted August 10, 2011 11:17 AM
took mine out in January. ride on the interstate pretty often and never had an issue.
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dubious
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posted August 10, 2011 11:21 AM
Robert, what pistons and rods are you using ? Are they colse to stock weight and length.
Even if they are the moment of inertia could have changed drastically from stock?
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natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
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joel787
Zone Head
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posted August 10, 2011 12:06 PM
quote:
removed balancers and it a girls wet dream machine
ama take em out to step up my game
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