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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: porting zx14 head ? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
wrongway


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posted September 06, 2010 07:11 PM        
porting zx14 head ?

Anyone have any tips on porting ? I cant afford a $3500 stage 3 head /cam pakage so I will try to port one of my spare heads. Hoping to pick up 5-10% without going to larger valves.

I do have some experience on car stuff and I have a SF-600 flowbench to help figure out what works or doesnt work. But any info or tips are always welcome.

Roy

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01smokes


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posted September 06, 2010 07:13 PM        
are you gonna do cams as well
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blackbullet76


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posted September 06, 2010 07:16 PM        
I ported my 4-wheeler head with only knowledge of automotive engines and it turned out quite well. I haven't seen the ports of a 14 head, but I'd say the throat of the valve opening is a good start and gasket matching all ports except the exhaust.
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wrongway


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posted September 06, 2010 07:23 PM        
quote:
are you gonna do cams as well


not yet ... staying on a budget :-)

Roy

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1badzx12r


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posted September 06, 2010 07:28 PM        
enjoy roy


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=head%20porting%20tricks
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wrongway


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posted September 06, 2010 07:33 PM        
quote:
enjoy roy


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=head%20porting%20tricks



don't you remember the thread last week ,,,, car motors are completely different . I need help on bike motors .....

Roy

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1badzx12r


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posted September 06, 2010 07:37 PM        Edited By: 1badzx12r on 7 Sep 2010 02:47
sure do roy my bad


http://www.bing.com/search?q=motorcycle%20head%20porting%20tricks&mkt=en-us&FORM=DLCTBR&DI=6244&CE=14.0&CM=SearchWeb


ENJOY



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/head-porting-KZ-900-1000-1100-ZX9-ZX10-ZX11-ZX12-ZX14-/250570955641?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a57315b79
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wrongway


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posted September 06, 2010 07:48 PM        
quote:
sure do roy my bad


http://www.bing.com/search?q=motorcycle%20head%20porting%20tricks&mkt=en-us&FORM=DLCTBR&DI=6244&CE=14.0&CM=SearchWeb


ENJOY



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/head-porting-KZ-900-1000-1100-ZX9-ZX10-ZX11-ZX12-ZX14-/250570955641?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a57315b79



nothing there of any help.... my grandkids know more than some of those geniuses


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1badzx12r


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posted September 06, 2010 07:51 PM        
there no way you went thru 31,500 results
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wrongway


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posted September 07, 2010 04:27 PM        
I guess I am going to try to figure this out on my own. If the porting shows any hp gains on the dyno I will post pictures and info.
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Shane661


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posted September 07, 2010 04:37 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 7 Sep 2010 23:49
Good luck. As for flow dynamics on a car head vs. a bike head....it has nothing to do with the thread last week....you missed the point(s) by a mile.
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Y2KZX12R


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posted September 07, 2010 06:02 PM        
Roy,

You basically want to increase the flow without decreasing the velocity at the MCSA.
Increasing the MCSA increases the flow but hurts velocity. That's where most people with flow benches get into trouble. Opening the choke under the valve increases high lift flow but hurts low lift flow... unless you reconfigure the approach to the 45 seat angle while increasing the choke. This is where properly designed valve seat angles or radii come in to play.
You will notice that the #1 and #4 intake ports are not as good as the #2 and #3 intake ports.
You can get the #1 and #4 better but they will never be as good so don't kill yourself over this.

I don't recommend using a carbide cutter in any of the ports. Use a sand paper roll and a flapper after. Do not remove much material, as soon as its smooth stop. This is one of those cases where its better to have the port too small than too big. Thinning the boundary layer (polishing the port) will increase the flow a few % all by itself because these are high velocity ports from the factory. Try not to remove the factory taper by making the MCSA big. It murders power.

Dont even test the exhaust port on the flow bench. If you chase big flow numbers on a flow bench on the exhaust side you will ruin the port.

Blend the rubber manifolds to the head and throttle bodies. The burning rubber smell will make you sneeze.....

In order to take advantage of the porting you will need more lift on the cams. The engine will want more valve curtain area. You get this by either larger valves or more lift. Dont go over .400" lift or so with the small stock 26.5mm buckets.

Did you consider a std size valve stage 2 port? There not as expensive because they don't have ss valves bronze seats and o/s buckets and cam clearance work etc. Of course they don't make as much power on a big motor either. Just a thought.


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wrongway


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posted September 07, 2010 06:22 PM        
Jim ,

thanks for the info. I am coming along pretty good, seeing almost 10% gains in high lift flow and small gains in low lift flow numbers. outside ports are within 5% of #2 & #3.

I would have considered a stage 2 head with stock valves, but I dont thik you were offering that when we talked after Loring. Email me the cost for that ... I stil have 2 more spare heads :-)

Roy

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wrongway


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posted September 08, 2010 06:40 PM        
I ended up with a 9% gain on high end flow numbers. Low and mid lift numbers had smaller gains but they did not get worse than stock, so I dont think I screwed them up.

anyone have a guess at how much hp that will ad to my 200 hp 1530 motor ? Still running stock cams ...

Roy

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1badzx12r


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posted September 08, 2010 07:35 PM        Edited By: 1badzx12r on 9 Sep 2010 02:36

quote:
anyone have a guess at how much hp that will ad to my 200 hp 1530 motor ?
quote:







0




i'm not being mean just my guess


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wrongway


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posted September 08, 2010 08:22 PM        
quote:


0


i'm not being mean just my guess





well ,,, I have been there before ,,, spent 7 years trying to set a SuperStock record before I was able to .... hope I learned something from that ...


but I keep forgetting that bike motors are DIFFERENT ...

Roy

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1badzx12r


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posted September 08, 2010 08:45 PM        
think of it this way ...its like buying tires roy .you spend money and gain nothing .
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wrongway


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posted September 08, 2010 09:03 PM        
hoping that I see a gain.... but I didnt spend any money .... except for the $8000 flow bench :-(
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1badzx12r


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posted September 08, 2010 09:20 PM        Edited By: 1badzx12r on 9 Sep 2010 04:25
last time i taught I'd see gains was i wrong ..i did a leak down test and a couple of cylinder was leaking air .. i check valve clearance all good .. so i leak down it with no cams . same thing air escaping . so i send the head to a machine shop ..valves pitted .. OK 600.00 later with my new carp valve springs .i do the leak down again before cam install . guess what i can hear air coming out exhaust just a peep worth .. put it all back together . runs exactly like it did before all the work on it .. about 100 passes later . fuel pump popped a welch plug dropping 25% of fuel and frying 3 pistons .. then it was the mtc piston failure ..
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Shane661


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posted September 09, 2010 02:54 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 9 Sep 2010 10:48
quote:


but I keep forgetting that bike motors are DIFFERENT ...

Roy


The difference has nothing to do with the way air flows...air is air. It is more related to packaging and mechanical stress limits, really. As stated, Roy...you are really missing the point of what is different between the motorcycle and car engine designs..or are you?

I'd like to think that you are just having fun with this....

My guess (which is just a complete shot in the dark!) is that you will go from 197 to perhaps 205-208 hp...if you make no other changes (such as leaning out your a/f). I bet that with a little tuning you can get it to 210 hp safely. Good luck with it, I'm sure you will see some gains.

How much valve lift are you testing the flow at?

Jim has actually recently completed a Stage 2 stock valve head for me. I will likely be using it on the stock motor, though.

Shane

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wrongway


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posted September 09, 2010 05:02 AM        
I had 9% gain at .350 lift.

I remember Jim saying that you needed bigger cams to get the benifit of his stage 2 port ... you getting cams also ?

Roy

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Shane661


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posted September 09, 2010 05:04 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 9 Sep 2010 12:05
For those who are interested, here is a thread with some pics I took of a spare head:

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=13&TID=52157&pagenumber=1

Really just basic stuff, but I thought someone might be interested in the close-up photo's of the head. Some discussion of basic porting and problem areas as well. I was considering porting my own head, but it was much cheaper for me to have Jim do it. That way I didn't have to buy a flow bench right away. :-)

Speaking of Flow benches, here is another thread I started about some of the cheaper DIY options:

http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=13&TID=52619

Anyway, just thought this stuff might be of interest to a few people.

Shane

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Shane661


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posted September 09, 2010 05:11 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 9 Sep 2010 12:11
quote:
I had 9% gain at .350 lift.

I remember Jim saying that you needed bigger cams to get the benifit of his stage 2 port ... you getting cams also ?

Roy


No cams for now. Jim said that the Stage 2 port would bias the power a little more to the top end, due to a larger MCSA. It was his call on the port. I figured that trade off would work well for my application.

I was actually going for a big cam Stage 2 port, with Busa buckets. But I ran out of parts money due to some unplanned events. So, we did the best we could with a stock motor in mind. I've actually had a pretty big set of cams made, and procured the large buckets, but can't afford to build the motor for them at this time....I'll have to get back to that project later.

Shane

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wrongway


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posted September 09, 2010 05:12 AM        
quote:

I remember Jim saying that you needed bigger cams to get the benifit of his stage 2 port ... you getting cams also ?

Roy



I take that as a yes?


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Shane661


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posted September 09, 2010 05:59 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 9 Sep 2010 13:12
quote:
quote:

I remember Jim saying that you needed bigger cams to get the benifit of his stage 2 port ... you getting cams also ?

Roy



I take that as a yes?




Actually, it's a "no" in this case...

Jim went with the Stage 2 port, and standard valves, knowing I was going to run stock cams and pistons. My head was made to optimize high rpm power on an otherwise internally stock motor. I will be using the head in tandem with larger throttle bodies.

My big cams are for an oversized valve head with a Stage 2 port, for use on a big motor.

Shane

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