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Thread: Metal crap in the oil. Need advice [ This thread is 2 pages long: 1  2     Next» ]
oilfieldtrash


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posted June 15, 2010 07:49 AM        
Metal crap in the oil. Need advice

I've noticed a knocking sound coming from the motor for the last month or so. It comes and goes so I figured it was nothing but normal motor sounds. I changed the oil today and i found what looks like metal sand in the oil. One piece was like a giant piece of sand but it was silver. There is a good amount of this in the drain pan. I fear the worst. Any ideas?
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'09 zx6r lime green bone stock
'07 white S.E. ZX-14 sold

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Shane661


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posted June 15, 2010 08:00 AM        
Silver is better than gold.

Post some pics. Some shavings are not unusual. Let's not panic.

Shane

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biggmoinc


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Posts: 747
posted June 15, 2010 08:18 AM        
Maybe the knocking is the piston slap from worn out rings, does it go away when the motor is warmed up? I hate to see ne thing in the oil!!!!!!!!!! But you guys rebuild a motor n less than a week so it might not mean as much to yall, lol, I would be down for the entire summer!!!!
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
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oilfieldtrash


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posted June 15, 2010 08:29 AM        Edited By: oilfieldtrash on 15 Jun 2010 15:30




It happens most when the bike gets warm. I hear like a knock from what sounds like its coming from the motor. It's not the cam chain tensioner problem.
There was one piece that was pretty good size. Not shaving size but like a big piece of dirt size and silver.
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Shane661


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posted June 15, 2010 08:33 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Jun 2010 15:33
How many miles on the bike/oil?

Wasn't there another time you thought your motor was about to go?

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oilfieldtrash


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posted June 15, 2010 08:37 AM        
quote:
How many miles on the bike/oil?

Wasn't there another time you thought your motor was about to go?

6700 miles and it's the same problem I was having. Just changed the oil today and got freaked out. Any idea what I should do at this point. I'm 100% sure those came out of the bike cause I cleaned the drain pan before dumping the oil to make sure whatever came out came out of the bike.
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biggmoinc


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posted June 15, 2010 08:37 AM        
Doesnt look like shavings, looks like a buildup that is coming apart but what the hell could it b in ur pan, mayb the small pieces just came off the big part that came out, but what is it?
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
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Shane661


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posted June 15, 2010 08:44 AM        
6700 miles on the oil?

It's hard to say without being there in person. Did you have it into the shop and all? I have seen more than that come out of good motors.

Shane

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speedgene


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posted June 15, 2010 09:03 AM        
You, or did you have someone sync the throttle body? Someone suck mercury into the engine without using the sleeve-down fittings for the hoses? I've done that plenty of times and yes, even to the 14 with a brand new manometer out of the box. One good suck can pull that mercury out of the manometer if you are not close to that kill switch watching it get sucked in. That is why it looks like tiny mercury balls I found on the floor and made one big dirty glob again cleaning that mess up. That does not look like sheered crank bearing material.

Either way, drop the pan. Look for more huge chunks before that crank turns to junk. Might be junk since you heard the noise. Either that, or the pistons are the noise of the first gen. Then they changed to different pistons for said knock noise. Nothing related to the crank if no material is found. It was piston knock on warm up with all the smack the slap the peen out of it is a broken in skirt clearance.
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oilfieldtrash


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posted June 15, 2010 09:10 AM        
quote:
6700 miles on the oil?

It's hard to say without being there in person. Did you have it into the shop and all? I have seen more than that come out of good motors.

Shane
No 6700 miles on the bike about 1200 miles on the oil. Shell Rotella T 5w 40
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Shane661


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posted June 15, 2010 09:17 AM        
Seems like a lot for 1200 miles. Do you get the oil hot before draining, typically?

Sometimes extra garbage can stay in the pan if you are not get the oil thin before draining.

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Big_T112


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posted June 15, 2010 11:18 AM        
Do you miss a lot of gears? Could be flash from castings? Have you put a magnet to it? is it alum. or steel? The trans. on my HD Road King always spits out metal like that when I change the oil in it. It is hard to say but most bearings failures you will se gold in the oil.
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1badzx12r


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posted June 15, 2010 12:14 PM        
suxs to be you .. but that ain't normal even for a guy with a turbo .. check your clutch basket to see if its damage and getting ready to explosed
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LAB3


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posted June 15, 2010 03:42 PM        
quote:
You, or did you have someone sync the throttle body? Someone suck mercury into the engine without using the sleeve-down fittings for the hoses? I've done that plenty of times and yes, even to the 14 with a brand new manometer out of the box. One good suck can pull that mercury out of the manometer if you are not close to that kill switch watching it get sucked in. That is why it looks like tiny mercury balls I found on the floor and made one big dirty glob again cleaning that mess up. That does not look like sheered crank bearing material.

Either way, drop the pan. Look for more huge chunks before that crank turns to junk. Might be junk since you heard the noise. Either that, or the pistons are the noise of the first gen. Then they changed to different pistons for said knock noise. Nothing related to the crank if no material is found. It was piston knock on warm up with all the smack the slap the peen out of it is a broken in skirt clearance.




+1 Shane, pull pan and look. Sure looks like mercury. Wear a plastic glove, don't want that mercury crap in blood from a cut finger. Call me before you replace the pan..
Louis

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LeonidasZX14


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posted June 15, 2010 03:50 PM        Edited By: LeonidasZX14 on 15 Jun 2010 22:52
quote:
quote:




+1 Shane, pull pan and look. Sure looks like mercury. Wear a plastic glove, don't want that mercury crap in blood from a cut finger. Call me before you replace the pan..
Louis
Wear gloves..................god knows that mercury is some deadly stuff in large quantities. Now that is funny stuff!
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LAB3


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posted June 15, 2010 04:13 PM        
quote:
suxs to be you ..


I know some Racers here think the same about you lol :-)

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oilfieldtrash


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posted June 15, 2010 06:49 PM        
I pulled the oil pan guys and it was clean enough to eat on. Not one flake of metal. I drained to oil the first time and filled it with new oil. I then inspected the drain pan and found the metal in it. Then I emptied the fresh oil I had put in then pulled the oil pan off the bike. It was clean. Well I decided to take it to a mechanic. The owner of cycle werks here in Ft Worth. He listened to the bike and said it sounded fine. He said if its something bad it doesn't come and go just keeps getting worse. He said to just ride it like it is that bikes just make noise. He doesn't think its necessary to tear it down. He said even though I drained the pan on the bike twice with oil that if some crap was in the pan it would of still been there and that draining the oil out of the bike never gets all the metal out. Is that correct?
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LAB3


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posted June 15, 2010 08:03 PM        
If you have the oil filter cut it open and look at what is in it. I hope the owner of the shop is right. I have never seen Hard silver metal balls like that in any jap bike I have ever had. As you told me the metal is hard so I don't think it is mercury unless mixing it with hot oil made the mercury get hard.??? Weird. Got me bro.
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INTIMIDA2OR


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posted June 16, 2010 11:05 AM        
Well If it's bearings then you will be seeing fools gold shortly . But those to me are a little big to be bearing material unless a bearing is failing and it's just coming apart.
I'd find out if a magnet picks that stuff up. At least that will narrow down the list a bit.
It really looks like the stuff you'd find in the 1st few oil changes after rebuilding a motor .
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oilfieldtrash


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posted June 16, 2010 11:12 AM        
Could the bike still be breaking in? 6700 miles.
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1badzx12r


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posted June 16, 2010 11:51 AM        
quote:
quote:
suxs to be you ..


I know some Racers here think the same about you lol :-)




wow you know racer's .. any of them worth a chitt..
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LAB3


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posted June 16, 2010 12:06 PM        
quote:
Could the bike still be breaking in? 6700 miles.



Ummmm don't think so. We need to find a way to open the oil filter from the oil change and see what is in it. Gloves on to be safe :-)

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speedgene


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posted June 16, 2010 12:16 PM        Edited By: speedgene on 16 Jun 2010 19:17
quote:
I'd find out if a magnet picks that stuff up. At least that will narrow down...


Yes the metal is magnetic, no I can't pick it up, yes I had someone sync the throttle body, no, nobody has touched the bike with a manometer using said mercury balls exploding onto the drain pan.

Are we to keep guessing or can you narrow down a yes or no like this... Yes, I head detonation really bad once. No, I do not hammer my bike or do I drag race it. Now, are we looking at det off a piston? The balls are crush-able on a hammer blow? It looks flat now. Like I polished the aluminum at the same time, look at it shine? No, it made a lot of noise and shattered all over the place is; take one tiny ball pick it up and take a swing at it.

Yes, the bike is in a constant break-in or is breaking-down is [the] wear you buy a new bike or rebuild the low compression engine that kills it; we still have spark and fuel. Yes, it is still breaking in as in, slowly wearing out. No, as in that first flush of the oil was most of the break in carnage. Yes, you will still have debris in float as it hides behind and will re-flow with the next go around and out she comes is that engine has to be spotless by now a 7K.

1. Yes/No, did you PM someone say these balls in the photo are hard? So, no, it is not mercury being there is new information and you have yet to squash the sync at all with your posts having yet to confirm what is assumed at both ends now is hearsay-say it in your next post.
2. Yes/No, do you drag race, abuse the bike, have some mods, you had an explosion or a knock that blew away piston material as you can scope the cylinder via the spark plug hole, see the spark to piston is where the hole in the piston begins. So, what was once a clean lathe machining is now a crater caused by detonation. And those balls are perfect specimens that can blow past the skirts and down the cylinder wall.
3. Yes/No, it shines with a hammer blow, no/yes, it shatters look out something is letting go on the snowballing effect is already set!
4. Do you still have the oil filter? Cut that puppy open. Tiny balls there too? Imagine those blades crushing that flat, some were too big to pass through like a kidney stone would. Do they float out with the cut at the cartridge? Save that drain out the oil filter to see if there are any tiny balls there too.
5. The experienced eye says they too have not seen balls that sit there after a drain. I sure have never seen this. Like the popcorn cartel said in his quote... Someone pass the butter.




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tshultz


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posted June 16, 2010 12:23 PM        
cut the oil filter open use a punch and a hand held metal shears. I whent threw the same thing with my bike but there was no shaving in the filter. best of luck.
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oilfieldtrash


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posted June 16, 2010 12:36 PM        
quote:
cut the oil filter open use a punch and a hand held metal shears. I whent threw the same thing with my bike but there was no shaving in the filter. best of luck.
What did you determine? You just keep riding it?
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