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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Fitting the Supercharger NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
dubious


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posted February 28, 2010 01:45 PM        
quote:
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx


use this link for injector and fuel pressure requirements
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01smokes


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posted February 28, 2010 01:46 PM        
quote:
do you think the newer bosch 1000cc injectors will support 400rwhp on E85?


the plan is to take the 725cc to 400+hp these injectors can take alot of fuel pressure im gonna have to crank it up to get there but i think it will happen, ill know more as soon as i get the bike on the dyno.


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johnbull


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posted March 01, 2010 11:47 AM        
Injectors arrived this morning and are ready fitted. They are a bit longer so we had to space the fuel rail up a bit. We should have the car back on the dyno in a couple of days.

We're running a bit short on time now as Next Sunday is the 1st round of the championship.

01smokes, good to hear that the engine started up nicely and idled well on the 750cc injectors. How much fuel did you knock off the PC in order to idle well?
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01smokes


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posted March 01, 2010 01:43 PM        
quote:
Injectors arrived this morning and are ready fitted. They are a bit longer so we had to space the fuel rail up a bit. We should have the car back on the dyno in a couple of days.

We're running a bit short on time now as Next Sunday is the 1st round of the championship.

01smokes, good to hear that the engine started up nicely and idled well on the 750cc injectors. How much fuel did you knock off the PC in order to idle well?


right now its -15 but its still rich at idle like 12.2 on the wide band i need to get it on a dyno, but we got pushed back on the dyno time until next Tuesday, the shop owners are heading to Florida to a race to race his 10.5 out law cars
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johnbull


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posted March 05, 2010 12:28 PM        
Had the car on the dyno this morning with the new 690 injectors and got it mapped.

With the pulley that we're running at the moment all we're getting is 5PSI of boost but its better that way and more reliable since we're still on OE rods and pistons.

It made 231 RWHP & 121 ft/lbs of torque @ 8400 which we were very happy with considering the low boost. Ignition was retarded from 0 boost up to 5psi boost linear ending up with 2 degrees retard at 5psi.


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dubious


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posted March 05, 2010 04:38 PM        Edited By: dubious on 6 Mar 2010 00:39
those are good numbers for such a conservative tune ,

as long as your CHT are good, and boost is not 5psi until 5000 rpm, I would be suprised if you need to pull any timing, especially with good fuel, and ~11.5 to 12 afr

high load, too much boost at low rpm and high temps push them into detonation, otherwise 5 psi is good with stock timing
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01smokes


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posted March 05, 2010 05:40 PM        
quote:
Had the car on the dyno this morning with the new 690 injectors and got it mapped.

With the pulley that we're running at the moment all we're getting is 5PSI of boost but its better that way and more reliable since we're still on OE rods and pistons.

It made 231 RWHP & 121 ft/lbs of torque @ 8400 which we were very happy with considering the low boost. Ignition was retarded from 0 boost up to 5psi boost linear ending up with 2 degrees retard at 5psi.




Sounds good< what were the duty cycles like on the injectors?
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johnbull


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posted March 09, 2010 01:46 AM        
Duty cycle max is between 65/70 %.

We've suddenly encountered a huge problem with the car. Its developed a sort of misfire/rev limiter at about 6000rpm when we actually got the car on the track for the 1st time. I cannot understand how it was fine on the dyno and wont run properly now on the road. Just FYI we are using the PCV with a 2 bar map sensor which goes into the 0-5V signal on the PCV in order to be able to map according to boost pressure. The OEM map sensor is still in place as we checked it and found that it keeps reading up to 3.5PSI and above that pressure just sticks to its maximum voltage.

Anybody have any suggestions?
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BobC


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posted March 09, 2010 05:28 AM        Edited By: BobC on 9 Mar 2010 13:29
I haven't got any miraculous solutions to offer for the misfire but I know that supercharged engines are very hard on spark plugs, so that's where I'd start.
Let us know how you get on please and good luck.
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dubious


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posted March 09, 2010 07:47 AM        Edited By: dubious on 9 Mar 2010 15:51
the stock map sensor should not see any boost. ever.
You need to put a check valve inline to it stock map sensor. so it will see vaccum and zero pressure, but never boost.
ECU is probably pulling timing or going into a limp mode being maxxed out.

also double check the pcV ground.

while we are on subject of the boost sensing lines, are you using a blow off valve?





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johnbull


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posted March 09, 2010 08:22 AM        
Thanks guys for your input.

I spoke to Holeshot this morning which is where I got the injectors from and they said that there kits also use the OEM map senor in its orginal position but also use a 2 bar map sensor externally as a boost reference to the power commander which is the same setup that we are using.

Dubious I will try with the check valve and let you all know how it goes.

Re. blow off valve, yes I'm using a dump valve which takes its boost/vacuum reference from below the butterlies.

Cheers.
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dubious


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posted March 09, 2010 09:16 AM        
did you drill out your ports on the throttle bodies for reference signal?
they are way undersized stock, they should be drilled out. I drilled min out till there was no brass lft in them, 3/64" I think I used.

Thats correct, stock map sensor will deliver stock fuel at idle under vaccum etc, and then the 2nd map senssor should be the only one to see boost, and then the pc5 will add fuel at boost.

I am suprised it ran good on dyno without the check valve....strange

I will look for a diagram i have and post it for you.
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johnbull


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posted March 09, 2010 10:50 AM        
Yep, the ports on the throttle bodies are drilled out in order to get a good vacuum/boost reference.

Thanks for the help.
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dubious


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posted March 09, 2010 12:10 PM        Edited By: dubious on 9 Mar 2010 20:11
Hey, no problem John. glad to help.



Psychobike has an excellent forum for turbo systems and assistance.
as well try turbobike, also excellent resource for info on forced induction with the bikes.
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woppi


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posted March 10, 2010 06:27 AM        
@johnbull

lets see the complete car ?

thx

woppi
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johnbull


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posted March 10, 2010 10:32 AM        


Car on the track last time we raced in Sicily before supercharging it.
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johnbull


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posted March 10, 2010 10:37 AM        
We have just come back from the airstrip where we went this afternoon to try the car after 3 days of pulling all the wireing out and checking every single sensor, ECU etc to try and find what the damn problem was.

The engine did exactly the same as before when you floor the throttle, then I decided to try feeding the throttle slowly through the revs (basically not loading it).....and no hesitation or misfire at all.......to cut a long story short, the map from the dyno was Crap!! Basically it had the 100% TPS column very rich from about 3500 to 6500 RPM, so when you floor the throttle at low revs it jumps into that part of the map.

So much for paying good money to get the engine mapped properly (or so we thought).

This really pissed me off!!! Luckily it was getting very rich when you floor the throttle and not very lean.....which could have caused a lot of damage to the engine.

Well.......we're looking forward to its 1st race meeting this coming Sunday, if it doesnt rain that is!!
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dubious


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posted March 10, 2010 10:46 AM        
yeah, the load a dyno puts on a motor really is quite different than the load its see's moving the vehicle.
.... and alot of so called tuners really don't know how to tune too
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INTIMIDA2OR


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posted March 10, 2010 11:14 AM        
Great stuff!
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fbmbks


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posted March 10, 2010 11:27 AM        
that is so god damn cool! id love to see more pics of it, dk if there like race secrets or something haha nice car I bet its a blast
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fbmbks


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posted March 10, 2010 11:31 AM        
quote:







how easy would it be to take that secondary rod out of there? should allow a little more air flow

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woppi


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posted March 10, 2010 11:52 AM        
NICE CAR !

thx
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dubious


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posted March 10, 2010 01:47 PM        
fbmks
That rod has been removed , but the cold start high idle is gone, and the performance gain has been negligible. not worth the time or effort I have been told.

There is a long thread on here somewhere about it.
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johnbull


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posted March 16, 2010 01:26 AM        
The car performed excellently last Sunday at our 1st race of the year. We finished 2nd overall up against the big 2200cc cars. Fuel map is still far off as it is still very rich at bottom end but definately moving in the right diection.

Photo of last Sunday 2nd corner.


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zxbob


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posted March 16, 2010 07:02 AM        
Very Cool -

Glad to her things are getting sorted out for ya

Bob
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