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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Flex fuel ZX14 project finished NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Y2KZX12R


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posted April 03, 2010 06:58 AM        
quote:


do you put top lube in a gas motor ?

Roy



You dont need to the Gas Doesnt wash away the oil as agressively. The valve stems are lubed from the engine oil going past the valve seals.
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JDC


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posted April 03, 2010 07:52 AM        
quote:
After testing E85 on the race bike , I decided to fix up the street bike.......

E85 is cheaper
E85 make more midrange power
E85 runs cooler
E85 cleans your injectors
I guess being green is ok too :-)

If you have a power commander already , there is no real cost to do the conversion.

Roy




Any ideas how this may effect a turbo'd bike?

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wrongway


Pro
Posts: 1078
posted April 03, 2010 09:31 AM        
quote:
quote:
After testing E85 on the race bike , I decided to fix up the street bike.......

E85 is cheaper
E85 make more midrange power
E85 runs cooler
E85 cleans your injectors
I guess being green is ok too :-)

If you have a power commander already , there is no real cost to do the conversion.

Roy




Any ideas how this may effect a turbo'd bike?


the 112 octane is good, but you would need really big injectors to cover the 35% increase in volume.

there are alot of tubro race cars running E85 . Do a google search on E85 and turbos , looks like alot of info out there .

Roy

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01smokes


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posted April 03, 2010 10:32 AM        
quote:
quote:
After testing E85 on the race bike , I decided to fix up the street bike.......

E85 is cheaper
E85 make more midrange power
E85 runs cooler
E85 cleans your injectors
I guess being green is ok too :-)

If you have a power commander already , there is no real cost to do the conversion.

Roy




Any ideas how this may effect a turbo'd bike?

im running it its awesome the bike runs so cool and its like running c16 all the time i would not be afraid to really put the screws to it on e85 im gonna be upping it from 8 to 12 psi soon than to 15 as soon as i get my boost controller
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Shane661


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posted April 03, 2010 10:36 AM        
Turbo pistons, or 15 psi on stock pistons??
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01smokes


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posted April 03, 2010 10:54 AM        
quote:
Turbo pistons, or 15 psi on stock pistons??


STOCK lol it will only be used in the last gear at the track so just for that extra little bit of MPH i dont think it will be getting hot enough to melt anything but we shall find out as soon as the ams1000 gets put on
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BLK ICE


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posted April 03, 2010 12:20 PM        Edited By: BLK ICE on 3 Apr 2010 19:25
+10hp over 87 pump, runs cool like C16 $2.50 a gal!!
Is anyone using dry nitrous with this stuff?
If so, what size shot can a stock 07 zx14 fuel system support?






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01smokes


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posted April 03, 2010 03:17 PM        
quote:
+10hp over 87 pump, runs cool like C16 $2.50 a gal!!
Is anyone using dry nitrous with this stuff?
If so, what size shot can a stock 07 zx14 fuel system support?








what are your duty cycles at now?
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wrongway


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posted May 05, 2010 06:25 AM        
after having the injectors flow tested , the '08 & up injectors flow 25% less. I tested on an '07 and the flow rate on that injector is 440 cc . That setup is good for almost 200 hp.

has anyone tested on an '08 or later bike? If my math is correct, stock injectors would not keep up ....

Roy

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gilberjj


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posted May 05, 2010 08:23 AM        
quote:
+10hp over 87 pump, runs cool like C16 $2.50 a gal!!
Is anyone using dry nitrous with this stuff?
If so, what size shot can a stock 07 zx14 fuel system support?








From my calculations, I don't know that you could use e85 AND dry nitrous on a stock fuel system. From what I've heard, the stock fuel system can do about 300 hp (not wheel hp). However, e85 takes another 35% more fuel.

300/1.35=222

So, you could do about 222 hp at the engine on the stock fuel system. 200whp if you're lucky.

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Road Weazel


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Posts: 7
posted May 05, 2010 09:14 AM        
Oh crap! The n00b's gonna say something...

I'm watching this thread with some interest.
Not that I know much of anything but I wonder if advancing the ignition timing wouldn't prove benificial with this, as alcohol has a slower burn rate compared with gasoline.
All the best.
Weazel in Phoenix
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gilberjj


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posted May 05, 2010 12:58 PM        
quote:
I'm watching this thread with some interest.
Not that I know much of anything but I wonder if advancing the ignition timing wouldn't prove benificial with this, as alcohol has a slower burn rate compared with gasoline.
All the best.
Weazel in Phoenix


I was advised by a tuner to get a dynojet timing controller in conjunction with my pcIII to get the most out of running e85, but I won't right off the get go.

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wrongway


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posted May 05, 2010 01:52 PM        
quote:
I was advised by a tuner to get a dynojet timing controller in conjunction with my pcIII to get the most out of running e85, but I won't right off the get go.


I tried +5 degrees with my sb6 ignition ,,, no change on the dyno. How much timing was he looking at adding ?

Roy

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Road Weazel


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posted May 07, 2010 09:48 AM        
A co-worker of mine has built a few Raptor quads (turbo and naturally aspirated) that ran on alcohol. He seems to remember about 10 degrees of advance being used. I'll try experimenting with this myself in a week or two and I'll post up my dyno results.
Thanx.
Weazel in Phoenix
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gilberjj


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posted May 07, 2010 10:51 AM        
quote:
quote:
I was advised by a tuner to get a dynojet timing controller in conjunction with my pcIII to get the most out of running e85, but I won't right off the get go.


I tried +5 degrees with my sb6 ignition ,,, no change on the dyno. How much timing was he looking at adding ?

Roy


I don't know that he had a specific number in mind. Rather, he was going to start adding timing till it made the most.

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Road Weazel


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posted May 21, 2010 12:53 AM        Edited By: Road Weazel on 21 May 2010 07:54
Suzuki B-King + E85 = FAIL

OK. I'm conducting this experiment in hopes that I can transfer what I learn to my ZX14. Here's what I tried today.
I set up an '08 Suzuki B-King with about 10* of ignition advance and E-85 fuel. I tweaked the PC3 to add 40% to everything and made a run. HP was down compared to gasoline and the AFR was near 16:1 or so.
Remapped to 100% on the PC software and ran again. Still down compared to gasoline although the AFR was at least down to 15:1.
As I understand it, I cannot go richer without changing the fuel pressure or injector sizes. The strange thing is that the injector duty cycles areat about 65% at 8000 RPM and only about 45% at redline...
This kinda confuses the Weazel.
Here's a copy of my dyno graph. I welcome any input y'all might have.
Thanx.
Weazel in Phoeinx


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'98 H*nda Valkyrie "The Weazel-Glide"
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wrongway


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posted May 21, 2010 05:08 AM        Edited By: wrongway on 21 May 2010 12:25
quote:
OK. I'm conducting this experiment in hopes that I can transfer what I learn to my ZX14. Here's what I tried today.
I set up an '08 Suzuki B-King with about 10* of ignition advance and E-85 fuel. I tweaked the PC3 to add 40% to everything and made a run. HP was down compared to gasoline and the AFR was near 16:1 or so.
Remapped to 100% on the PC software and ran again. Still down compared to gasoline although the AFR was at least down to 15:1.
As I understand it, I cannot go richer without changing the fuel pressure or injector sizes. The strange thing is that the injector duty cycles areat about 65% at 8000 RPM and only about 45% at redline...
This kinda confuses the Weazel.
Here's a copy of my dyno graph. I welcome any input y'all might have.
Thanx.
Weazel in Phoeinx




first thing to do is get the afr down to 12 ... you can burn stuff up at those AFR's. I do not understand how you can have a duty cycle of 65% at 8000 and 45 at redline ,,,, it should be increasing . IS there a set of secondary injectors ?

Roy


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wrongway


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posted May 21, 2010 05:30 AM        
here you go ,,,, you need a Secondary fuel module

35-SFM4 S.F.M. for Hayabusa, GSXR100 & B-King - All 2008 and up
$249.99

Where did you come up with 10 degrees advance ?and why did you put that in on your first run ? I would not be adding any timing until you get the fuel set with stock timing.

Roy

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speedgene


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Posts: 996
posted May 21, 2010 08:29 AM        
17:1 @ 150 HP is pretty damn good.

If you try a fatter injector, the bike starts up at 11:1 now; imagine the ratio with the next size up injector is a wet plug on start up. You'll need to minus the PC as low as it will go just to start the thing is my guess.

You need to control the red dotted line at 13:1 or there about as you well know. How you get that 17 down to 13 is break into the ECU and change that map. Just get a Suz racing ECU. Kawi makes one for the 600/1000cc models. That map there is for some long distance, high mileage, wave goodbye to the gas stations kind of map you got there now is WOT it looks like, IMO.
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Road Weazel


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Posts: 7
posted May 21, 2010 09:07 AM        
quote:
here you go ,,,, you need a Secondary fuel module

35-SFM4 S.F.M. for Hayabusa, GSXR100 & B-King - All 2008 and up
$249.99

Where did you come up with 10 degrees advance ?and why did you put that in on your first run ? I would not be adding any timing until you get the fuel set with stock timing.

Roy



Thanx to everyone who replied. I hadn't considered the secondary injectors before, but that does make perfect sense. The B-King is not my personal bike. It's just a 'test mule' and I'm not interested in spending $$ on it, so I may switch to a GSXR750 or 600 with only single injectors and drive on.
As for the advance and why 10*? My logic sometimes differs from that of a normal person but alcohol burns slower than gasoline. This is scientific fact. Someone earlier had mentioned that he went 5* on his ZX14 and saw no results, and a co-worker of mine used about 10* when he set up Raptors to run alcohol. This may be off' from 'optimal' but it seemed to be a reasonable place to start. I simply removed the crankshaft flywheel and key, then bolted it back on 10* from where the key was. If the bike were to be run anywhere other than a few pulls on the dyno I would use the PC Ignition Module to modify the ignition point.
Thanx again.
Weazel in Phoenix
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'99 H-D XL1200 with Sidecar
'98 H*nda Valkyrie "The Weazel-Glide"
'87 Cagiva Elefant

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Ozonkiller


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posted May 21, 2010 11:14 AM        
Speedtalk.com

Some of the smartest mother f'ers you'll ever meet.

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wrongway


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posted May 21, 2010 12:24 PM        
I would still start at stock timing ... you will be safe and still see a gain. after getting the fuel set , then play with the timing.

Roy

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Road Weazel


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posted May 21, 2010 02:01 PM        
quote:
I would still start at stock timing ... you will be safe and still see a gain. after getting the fuel set , then play with the timing.
Roy


I guess that with the way that I had to adjust the timing it made sense to move the rotor before getting the bike hot.
In retrospect, it was wasted effort since without a secondary fuel module I'm running out of injector...
If I could just get my own darned bike on the dyno I could do all of this the correct way and not be fiddle-farting around.
Thanx again.
Weazel
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'99 H-D XL1200 with Sidecar
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01smokes


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posted May 22, 2010 02:43 PM        
well me bike on 12 psi made 329hp on e85 no timing pulled
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zx-14lvr


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posted May 23, 2010 10:56 AM        
nice
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