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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: A-head good for street riding?? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Rook


Pro
Posts: 1110
posted August 10, 2009 06:17 PM        
A-head good for street riding??

I read through the many posts in the thread by gilberjj comparing Brock's, muzzy and other pipes. I've been thinking about it for a year and I'm just about set to buy an A-head but I need to know if I should even bother with a 4-2-1.

I like the looks, weight and sound of the A-head but being honest with myself, I'm not going to do a lot of drag racing, if any. The 14 will be a commuter/street thrills bike just like it has been since I bought it. I know a lot of you guys couldn't care less about the idle - 3,500 rpm range but that is where I will be riding most of the time with only a few 9-10K stints to spice things up here and there.

I'm not so worried about spending the money on a Brock's system, my concern is if I will actually loose the street riding low end power I now have if i go with an A-head. If that is the case, maybe i would better off with slipons.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


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Wheelie


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Old Man
Posts: 6902
posted August 10, 2009 06:18 PM        Edited By: Wheelie on 11 Aug 2009 01:18
look at the new Ti-Force in the classifieds

wee

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bruno nadeau


Expert Class
Posts: 174
posted August 10, 2009 06:52 PM        
i have yoshimura R77 full on my 09 and i like them,just the goud sond for me.i ride about the way you ride maybe a bit faster idle to 4400,most of the time at 4000.
____________
bruno nadeau

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epd345


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Posts: 1490
posted August 10, 2009 07:30 PM        
Rook I ride in the same RPM as you. No drag racing just street riding safely. I have a Yoshimura stainless TRC 4 into 1 with titanium can and its great. It has an easily removable baffle which makes it sound even better when removed. I think it sounds great, looks great and is very high quality. Drop me an email if you want some pics or a short video of it running. Best part about it is I got it directly from Yosh on clseout for $515 shipped.
____________
2012 ZX14, Ceramic Coated Brock's CT Meg, PCV, throttlemeister

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Rook


Pro
Posts: 1110
posted August 10, 2009 11:08 PM        
Nobody giving the nod to the A-head?

Thanks for comments, everyone. I've been getting lots of suggestions to go with Yoshi. I have been told that the R-77 increases power everywhere and that would be the most useable performance for me even if it doesn't get the highest hp #s.

That TiForce is a great deal but it looks so damn big. Looks great but I would have to have duals for visual balance with a can that big. The reason i like the looks of the A-head so much is because you almost wouldn't see it if it were ceramic coated black.

More thinking, more thinking. This all helps, though. Any other comments will be appreciated. Still waiting for someone to say, "get the A-head. You won't notice hardly any bottom/midrange decrease in performance!"

Rook

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LAB3


Needs a job
Posts: 2974
posted August 11, 2009 03:21 AM        
Muzzy M14 with polished stainless oval muffler. Makes great low end HP and Torque.
So Does the Yosh. The M14 has a O2 port if you ever want to data log.

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pazx14rider


Zone Head
Posts: 953
posted August 11, 2009 06:44 AM        
I dont know where your getting you will loose low end power by putting on a brocks alien head?? When I put on my full short meg system, pc3 and pulled the files it was twice the bike on low end as before. I think alot of the same with any exhaust muzzy, ti-force. The gains are real and you will notice the difference. I rid my bike on the street as well. but on the other hand when i go to the strip its even more fun. Your choice, your money, Dont read into every dyno sheet you see on the net, For instance a buddy of mine got a gixxer 1000 two brothers showed a 10 hp increase on the dyno with slip ons. I called Brocks to see what his slip ons gained.... nothing, They clearified no hp gains on slipons all power gains are made through the header. So with that dont believe everything you see, get what you want but in my person opinion you cant go wrong with Brocks or Muzzy.
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Shane661


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posted August 11, 2009 06:45 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 11 Aug 2009 14:20
The Alien Head will be great. All of the Brock pipes use the same header (to my knowledge). The low end power will be fine. But if I were you, I would consider some nice slip ons instead, for your operating range.

With the slip-on's you will retain the excellent stock riding manners. And if you make no other changes, you should not need a power commander. You will still likely see a small boost up top, since the bike is rich from the factory. And you will get the nice exhaust note, as well.

I like the Area P slip ons, but others make good ones as well.

Shane

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rich s



Posts:
posted August 11, 2009 07:15 AM        
Rook,

My Shortmegs will be on this week if you want to meet up somewhere this weekend. Just slip-ons though.

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Rook


Pro
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posted August 11, 2009 11:47 AM        
Rich, I rode with a guy who had a street meg full system last year. It sounded 100x better than the stock system. He didn't seem to have any trouble with bottom end/midrange although none of us raced. We were too scared of him.

I live in Milwaukee. Be fun to meet up on Sunday and do a little ride & bs if your in the area. You can contact me at dfayas@att.net

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rich s



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posted August 11, 2009 12:13 PM        
Oshkosh here so let me talk to the wife and if she will let me out of the house I will let you know.
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Newf14


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2007 ZX1400
Posts: 560
posted August 11, 2009 05:12 PM        
I put the alien head on my bike at the beginning of this riding season. I have done 8000 plus KM so far this year with ZERO problems with the exhaust and only 6 dragstrip passes.Exhaust note is not to bad crusing at highway or around town speed but get on the throttle she will roar. The power gain is really good through all of the RPM's in my opinion. I love the Brocks Alien head for the weight savings power gains and the outstanding Map support.

Newf14

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Rook


Pro
Posts: 1110
posted August 11, 2009 09:23 PM        
Thanks Newf. That's all i really wanted to hear. If you feel the power is good throughout the range that tells me it must be at least close to stock on the bottom. Totally agree with you on the map access when going Brock's. I would guess you might cut the price of your system in half if you consider all the tuning it would take to develop a few maps.
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Rook


Pro
Posts: 1110
posted August 11, 2009 09:33 PM        
quote:
Rook I ride in the same RPM as you. No drag racing just street riding safely. I have a Yoshimura stainless TRC 4 into 1 with titanium can and its great. It has an easily removable baffle which makes it sound even better when removed. I think it sounds great, looks great and is very high quality. Drop me an email if you want some pics or a short video of it running. Best part about it is I got it directly from Yosh on clseout for $515 shipped.


I heard a TRC tonight on a suz 1K. That Yoshi is a very high tech looking pipe and it doesn't seem like it would make hardly a sound. It lives up to it's look at idle but when the guy did some low revs, it had one menacing growl. I'm guessing he had the baffle out. Funny thing, I saw a lot of yoshi oval cans tonight but that was the only tri-oval I saw (there were probably several underseat tri-ovals, however). Well, I wouldn't shy away from it because of it's quiet looks after hearing it tonight. I have several recommendations for the Yoshi R-77 over on the other forum too. Must be popular with 14 owners.

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LAB3


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Posts: 2974
posted August 12, 2009 03:45 AM        
Yosh has made Great systems for over 30 years. If Yosh has it for sale it makes

good HP. Brocks is a better Drag Race system but I play on the street more than

the popular members here that Love Brocks and I have posted what I have found.

Brocks mid range HP is better than stock but there are a few other systems that make

more Torque from 2500 to 5500. But none of them have as Good of Customer Service.

Ride safe and have Fun.

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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted August 12, 2009 06:24 AM        
Alien Head doesnt make the low end power of a Muzzy M14 with oval canister. I outweigh Gilberjj by 130 pounds at least, and in our roll on contests, I could actually pull him until about 4.5k rpms, where he stopped my very slow pull and by 5k started slowly pulling away.

Again, considering the weight difference, I think that says alot. Both bikes were dyno'd that day btw, mine took the lead by 5hp (my bike always beats other well tuned 14's by 5-7hp, nothin to do with whose exhaust is better) but that 5hp would need another 30hp to make up the weight difference IMO.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted August 12, 2009 06:33 AM        Edited By: Sticks_n_Stones on 12 Aug 2009 13:34
Here is the dyno graph of Gilberjj's 14 (Alien Head) and my 14 (Muzzy M14 with oval canister). If you take away the 5hp manufacturer difference between my bike and his its basically a tie. And you can also see what a 3 hour difference can make on a dyno as the air heats up during the day. Maybe a 15 deg rise in temps and humidity by the time we did the 0W-20 oil run- which seemed to have made that part of the test invalid.

____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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pazx14rider


Zone Head
Posts: 953
posted August 12, 2009 10:53 AM        
Ohh here we go with the dyno sheets again...
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Rook


Pro
Posts: 1110
posted August 12, 2009 11:14 AM        
Brock's CT duals or single both will outdo the A-head by a little bit but we are talking big bucks now. $2,100 for duals. The CT duals perform a tiny bit better than the single but it is almost even. The single is only about $300 less than the duals. I've heard that both of the CT systems weigh less than the A-head which I am checking on with Brock. I have a hard time believing that.
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kaw now


Expert Class
Posts: 437
posted August 12, 2009 11:31 AM        
I believe that the top Mfgrs all copy one another's successful designs normal for any business as there is only so many ways to make power with a header given price space and what not. So that means all said its going to be pretty equal with the exception if a pipe is mostly tuned for max hp on top which will win in a drag race of course. As far as weight don't know what mine weighs but its not much lighter than one of the cannons by itself. Now what we really need is for more wheel Mfgrs to compete in the carbon fiber wheel area and lower those astronomical prices.
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NINJA12


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posted August 13, 2009 06:48 AM        
Sticks If you get a chance check your cam numbers?
That could explain your extra HP.

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Sticks_n_Stones


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Posts: 3930
posted August 14, 2009 01:21 PM        
Check what cam numbers ninja12? Its all OEM, never opened up- probably the only 2006 14 that hasnt had to fix its valve cover gasket (fingers crossed). Studying the dyno readouts, the only possible explanation cam-wise would be if I had maybe .020" more lift with duration and lobe seperation remaining the same. I could see that happening with a pushrod engine (running the preload at the high end), but not with a overhead cam setup- but I could be wrong as I know very little 'hands on' info on OHC setups. I personally think it was just a batch of piston rings came through with maybe 20% less tensile strength and they therefore exert less friction on the cylinder wall. lol good a guess as any!
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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Shane661


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Posts: 11491
posted August 14, 2009 01:27 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Aug 2009 20:34
quote:
Check what cam numbers ninja12? Its all OEM, never opened up- probably the only 2006 14 that hasnt had to fix its valve cover gasket (fingers crossed). Studying the dyno readouts, the only possible explanation cam-wise would be if I had maybe .020" more lift with duration and lobe seperation remaining the same. I could see that happening with a pushrod engine (running the preload at the high end), but not with a overhead cam setup- but I could be wrong as I know very little 'hands on' info on OHC setups. I personally think it was just a batch of piston rings came through with maybe 20% less tensile strength and they therefore exert less friction on the cylinder wall. lol good a guess as any!


Was your bike dyno'd on a Factory Pro? If so, that is unfortunate. There is no reliable method of comparing those numbers to a DJ, as far I can tell. So, other than the guys that went with you that day, it is hard to compare.

The dyno is really just a tool for comparison (and then change). "Real" hp #'s, etc...who cares? "Real" hp is what wins races, not dyno shootouts. What I am interested in is repeatability and the ability to compare data.

Shane

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Sticks_n_Stones


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posted August 14, 2009 01:42 PM        
Shane, bikes ran back to back: Some Guys, mine, then Gilberjj's. "Same day same dyno same temp" the oil test using Gilberjj's bike on 0W-20 Mobil 1 happened 4+ hours later and the dyno cell had heated up quite a bit since our early morning runs. Maybe 15-20 degrees difference.

We all three actually used a dynojet last fall at another dyno shootout where the results were nearly identical- just the numbers were higher. I agree that a number is just a number, which is why I only go to a fraction of the dyno shootouts/BBQ's held around here all year long. I only go to the ones that have at least a couple 14's or new Busa's (usually friends of mine), AND hot girls, AND hot food n drinks. The stunt shows are optional unless I bring my kids.
____________
'06 zx14
Muzzy M10/M14
PCIII w/ Muzzy map
Flies out K&N in!
bits n pieces...

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Shane661


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Posts: 11491
posted August 14, 2009 01:44 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 14 Aug 2009 20:46
quote:
Shane, bikes ran back to back: Some Guys, mine, then Gilberjj's. "Same day same dyno same temp" the oil test using Gilberjj's bike on 0W-20 Mobil 1 happened 4+ hours later and the dyno cell had heated up quite a bit since our early morning runs. Maybe 15-20 degrees difference.

We all three actually used a dynojet last fall at another dyno shootout where the results were nearly identical- just the numbers were higher. I agree that a number is just a number, which is why I only go to a fraction of the dyno shootouts/BBQ's held around here all year long. I only go to the ones that have at least a couple 14's or new Busa's (usually friends of mine), AND hot girls, AND hot food n drinks. The stunt shows are optional unless I bring my kids.


Did you guys compare a/f #'s? That is the first place I would look to explain the hp differences between the bikes.

So as not to threadjack too much, I stand by original assertion that Rook would be well served with a good set of slip on's for his intended operating range! (Idle-3500, with an occasional 9-10k rpm pull)

Shane

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