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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Breather problem whilst circuit racing NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
johnbull


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posted July 01, 2009 04:18 PM        
Breather problem whilst circuit racing

Last weekend I was circuit racing with my ZX14 powered single seater race car and totally cooked the engine and it ended up catching fire. This happened only 2 laps before the finish whilst I was leading.

A mate of mine was also running a ZX14 powered car. Throughout the weekends practice and qualifying sessions both cars were breathing oil exessively and filling the catch tanks with about a half litre of oil. Both cars had breather pipes coming straight off the fitting on top of the crankcase down to their breather bottles just below.........could this be the cause of so much oil being chucked out of the breather pipe.........since the breather pipe goes down instead of goes up like on the ZX14 motorcycle???????

On the bike the standard breather pipe comes out of the crankcase at 90 degrees and then goes 90 degrees up towards the airbox whereas ours were going straight down into the catch tank on the cars.

Are there any breather modifications to be done inside the engines....remember that these engines were running at very high revs for a good 20 mins out on the circuit.

I would appreciate suggestions on this one as we were nicknamed the Kawasaki's that burn more oil than fuel!!!!!

Cheers,

Josh
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John Bul Racing. Malta.

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smokinZX14


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posted July 01, 2009 04:27 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 1 Jul 2009 23:28
You could mostlikey stop it but dropping the pan and removing the breather tube that is clipped on the oil pickup ...It's to long and hanges down into the oil , oil gets pumped up the pipe by crank case pressure and out the vent tube .. All turbo guys and cut pan guys just remove it and no more problems ..
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johnbull


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posted July 01, 2009 04:43 PM        
Cheers smokin,

Fantastic, I will let my mate know about this and we will pull the pan off the engine. I have a 2009 engine on the way for my car since the engine is wrecked. Will do this mod straight away before putting the engine in.

What do you think about the breathers going down into a catch tank instead of up to the airbox like on the bike??? Would this make a big difference aswell?? Or wouldnt this affect the amount of oil being thrown out of the breather??
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John Bul Racing. Malta.

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dubious


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posted July 01, 2009 05:04 PM        
Some turbo guys are running fuel filters compatable for oil, mesh screen type, and fairly aluminum cannister type, large for volume in line with the vent; then a K&N breather on the other end of the oil filter housing.
Indeed as Lee mentions, everyone is pulling the long vent tube out of the crankase as well.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Just a thought....
My atp turbo came with a 1 way check valve for the return oil from the turbo, if you put this inline with the bottom of the catch can, and ran it in the direction that would allow it to drain, but not to vent, then you would also have an automatic drain on your catch, back to the sump...

In essence you would have 2 lines, a vent with the filter to knock out most oil vapour, and the outlet routed to the catch can, which has a vent filter, and a second line with a drain back to the sump with the check valve in it.

I have ran the bike at extensive RPM, not as extreme as a race car, but extensively nevertheless, and found it imperative to get the oil close to the full mark, or at least 3/4 the way up the sightglass, as it pumps out quite a bit on a day long hard high RPM ride.

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smokinZX14


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posted July 01, 2009 05:20 PM        Edited By: smokinZX14 on 2 Jul 2009 00:32
quote:
Cheers smokin,

Fantastic, I will let my mate know about this and we will pull the pan off the engine. I have a 2009 engine on the way for my car since the engine is wrecked. Will do this mod straight away before putting the engine in.

What do you think about the breathers going down into a catch tank instead of up to the airbox like on the bike??? Would this make a big difference aswell?? Or wouldnt this affect the amount of oil being thrown out of the breather??
This is what i have used in the past on my Big Inch motors.. http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Oil-Breather-Tanks/760016/10002/-1

I would if possible mount it above the Valve cover as high as you can put it ..... Try to keep the filter out of the air stream ...The air going past the filter at top speeds can act as a syphon and pull oil from the pan ... Some of the filters Jegs sells have a shield around the filter to keep this from taking place .. With the filter out of the air stream the oil that does makes it to the tank will just fall to the bottom of the tank and not come out the filter ..

With these two mods i don't think you will ever even see a drop of oil in the tank or filter ...
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dubious


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posted July 01, 2009 07:40 PM        Edited By: dubious on 2 Jul 2009 02:41
I just got one of these 2 days ago in the mail... it is nice and small...
http://www.jegs.com/p/JAZ/JAZ-Mini-Breather-Tank/746737/10002/-1



mine is natural, so I can see the level.
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BobC


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posted July 02, 2009 01:09 AM        Edited By: BobC on 2 Jul 2009 08:25
The difference when using the motor in a car is that it doesn't lean into corners, the surge in the sump would be greater and oil starvation more likely. When you run at continuous high revs you end up with engine oil in the airbox if the oil level is too high, so more oil won't help (Smokin's fix above will though). Have any of you car guys considered a dry sump modification? Or maybe some baffles in the sump which I think is the normal route for a wet sump race car?

http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/product.asp?idproduct=90&source=thumb This is for a Hayabusa so it must be possible.
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johnbull


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posted July 02, 2009 06:49 AM        
Thanks for your comments guys.

Yes the dry sump would be an option but at the moment the oil coming out of the breather is the biggest problem.

I am pulling the sump of this afternoon to have a look at the tube smokin mentioned and remove it. I will also see where any sump baffleing can be added to decrease the possibility of oil surge.

Thanks again guys. Will let you know how it goes.

Josh
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dubious


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posted July 02, 2009 08:55 AM        Edited By: dubious on 2 Jul 2009 15:56
extra oil in the airbox is better than no oil in the bearings was my point....

Muzzy has a dry sump system for something like $2K+
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johnbull


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posted July 02, 2009 11:04 AM        
I pulled the sump of this afternoon and found that breather pipe clipped on to the oil pick up that smokin suggested to remove. (smokin thanks by the way)

Can someone please explain why that pipe goes all the way down to the oil?? No wonder it throws oil out of the breather if the end of the pipe is below the oil level!!! I can tthink why they put that pipe there........

I just dont see the purpose of it.
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johnbull


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posted July 02, 2009 11:20 AM        


Finally managed to post a pic I think!!
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John Bul Racing. Malta.

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johnbull


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posted July 02, 2009 11:22 AM        
Yep thats what happens when you get oil thrown everywhere!!!!! I think thats definately the quickest I've ever gotten out of the car!!!!
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dubious


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posted July 02, 2009 11:27 AM        
SCARY!
Glad you are OK.
I wondered the same thing about the tube, must be emissions reasons...surely the little men in white lab coats are smarter than that...although I have worked with some engineers that were pretty thick too...LOL
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