sphynx
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted September 10, 2006 09:44 PM
Clutch Spring (Adding spacers to help clutchlife)?
Hi all, quick question regarding clutch springs and adding spacers to improve grip/clutch life. I understand how adding stiffer springs may help, but spacers? Isn't this the same as adding pre-tension to the suspension springs?
My understanding is that by adding spacers, you will only increase the initial "bite", but the force is still the sameat the end of the clutch release?
Any comments/thoughts?
____________
"My ambition in life I's to become the person my dog thinks I am" by rabbits losing lucky feet.
  
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 11, 2006 03:43 AM
Springs
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted September 11, 2006 05:02 AM
they do not make springs yet. only those washers. i was wandering the same thing myself.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 11, 2006 05:10 AM
Schnitz Racing has stiffer springs already.
http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4815887&showprevnext=1
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Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 11, 2006 05:14 AM
I have hade good sucess just shimming the oem springs,
they are at 0.140 right now good feel,
and adds some static spring pressure to the clutch.
Oh and I drag race as well as street ride.
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted September 11, 2006 08:12 AM
ok ok, well im wrong again. the ONLY place that i did not check has em, go figure.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 11, 2006 08:21 AM
Yea, they kinda look like the ones in the pic. Hint, they are the longer one 
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted September 12, 2006 12:05 AM
quote:
Yea, they kinda look like the ones in the pic. Hint, they are the longer one
Cool longer and beefier coils!
Those won't affect the disengagement or bind or anything adverse would they?
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'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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sphynx
Novice Class
Posts: 95
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posted September 12, 2006 12:19 AM
quote:
Hi all, quick question regarding clutch springs and adding spacers to improve grip/clutch life. I understand how adding stiffer springs may help, but spacers? Isn't this the same as adding pre-tension to the suspension springs?
My understanding is that by adding spacers, you will only increase the initial "bite", but the force is still the sameat the end of the clutch release?
Any comments/thoughts?
Am I missing the boat here or whould you agree that shimming will not increase the total excerted force that the plates experience?
____________
"My ambition in life I's to become the person my dog thinks I am" by rabbits losing lucky feet.
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INTIMIDA2OR
Needs a life
RED rider!
Posts: 13081
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posted September 12, 2006 12:34 AM
quote:
quote:
Hi all, quick question regarding clutch springs and adding spacers to improve grip/clutch life. I understand how adding stiffer springs may help, but spacers? Isn't this the same as adding pre-tension to the suspension springs?
My understanding is that by adding spacers, you will only increase the initial "bite", but the force is still the sameat the end of the clutch release?
Any comments/thoughts?
Am I missing the boat here or whould you agree that shimming will not increase the total excerted force that the plates experience?
Shimming should work fine!
It works on pretty much every sping related situation.
On older bikes you cut lengths of Pvc to preload the front fork springs, valve springs on motors are shimmed to get correct seat pressure to insure the valve stays shut when it should.
And the clutch would react the same as a valve spring in both reaction and application of a shim, in which both cases the spring is more compressed and gives more pressure in the closed position, and you would need to make sure there is no coil bind in both cases.
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14
*Lee*
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 12, 2006 05:53 AM
Shims=$20.00 Springs=$29.00 Both do the same thing, but I think the springs will work better in the long run and let you really use up all the clutch material on the plate before having to replace them.
These longer beefier springs present no problem with binding or release. In fact, the lever feels almost the same as it did stock.
We'll let you know after test n tune tonight or tomorrow.
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halvefast
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted September 12, 2006 06:08 AM
(10) 12mm washers from Lowe's= $2.00
being cheap as $hit = Priceless!
For real, each washer was 0.090 thick Brock's spacers are 0.240
Just seemed to be a little too much for my taste.
Found some others @ 0.065, I'm at 0.140 right now, still no slippage.
____________
Texas Mile 200.256mph - Oct. 2007 (Update 202.577mph Oct 2008) NOS assisted
ECTA Ohio Mile 195.132mph
TexasMile 2012 199.9 mph all motor!
Streetriders Shootout 2008 series Pro/ET Champ!
Streetriders Shootout 2007 Series Pro/ET Runner-up!
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 12, 2006 07:04 AM
I like the washers because you can adjust depending on how you like your clutch. I'm at .140 too and there's not alot of differance in clutch pull over stock....thinking of going more. Best 2 dollars I spent on the bike.
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 12, 2006 11:35 AM
Well somebody has to test these new springs, I guess it'll have to be me.
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flatoutbu
Pro
Posts: 1054
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posted September 12, 2006 12:00 PM
I wonder how much of a differance seat pressure is over shimming it? Did they give you any specs for them?
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06 Blue 14
9.008 at 153mph @ 195 suited
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 12, 2006 12:28 PM
nope
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted September 13, 2006 04:58 AM
the guy ordered my clutch from schnitz racing. ( i assume stock fibers and steels?) and stiffer springs. hes charging me $400 for full clutch (fibers, steels, and springs) labor and oil and filter. thats not bad, is it?
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted September 13, 2006 05:42 AM
Well the clutch is 195 and the springs are 20, the oil filter is 10, and depending on the oil say 20 for synthetic, so thats 235, 15 shipping is 250 so he's charging you 150 labor, seems a little high to me.
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smokinZX14
Needs a life
Posts: 10197
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posted September 13, 2006 06:04 AM
I tried shims in my zx14 and lost my clutch feel ..I went back to stock ...I may try the springs and see if i can keep that stock feel ..... P/S i didn't gain any ET or MPH with the shims....
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 13, 2006 08:56 AM
Yea, I'm running mine tonight at a track I haven't been to yet. Got all 5 of those extra long springs in, we'll see how grabby it is. I had super-stiff springs in my old drag bike, and it would slip a little, then grab hard, but it made me launch harder by default, I didn't have a choice, and maybe that's what I need here, we'll see.
You can get away with just using 3 and 2 stock ones, or 2 long, and 3 stock, but it's such a PITA to get my right side lower off now with the sidewinder, that ain't gonna happen. I'll just learn to launch it with all 5 springs.
eklipse636, do it yourself. It really isn't that hard. Spend the $150 labor somewhere else. Your getting hosed. These bikes are a bitch to work on, until you get used to it, but how long do you wanna keep paying somebody to change your oil and clutch???
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted September 13, 2006 11:21 AM
well he told me it was 75 labor for clutch. the oil he's using is what he uses in his bikes, its a semi senthetic and he swears by it, and hes been racing for a long time. the oil is $30. he told me figures on phone, and it all come out right. he said around 400. no more. i was gonna do it myself, but with me having absoutely no prior clutch experience, and i have nowhere to do it where i live now, i just said thats my better choice for how things are going now.
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Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 14, 2006 05:51 AM
Brock says to use 5w-30 mobil one synthetic. Not the extended life oil, just the regular. That's $21 at walmart. BTW, sythetic, and semi-sythetic are the same. All synthetic oils in the stores are a blend of synthetic stock, and petroleum oil. There are only about 5 kinds of pure synthetic oil you can buy, and none of it is name brand stuff. I used Redline years ago, and its 100% synthetic.
As far as working on the bike yourself, I understand what your going through. At least watch him do the work, so that when you do have a place you can work on it, you can do it yourself next time.
BTW, no race last night. Only place in the whole freaking state that it was raining, was at the track. Drove almost 2 hours, intense sunlight and low humidity all the way, til I got within 10 miles of the track. I look up, and there's the biggest nastiest thunderstorm I've seen in awhile, right over the track. So basically I just took the bike out for a drive yesterday, on the trailer. Now I have to go clean it as it got soaked last night. $60 bucks worth of gas, for nothing.
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Bently
Needs a life
2012 14r In Blue and no Mods!
Posts: 5428
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posted September 14, 2006 06:05 AM
I'm using the 5 -30 mobil1 and have 4200 miles and 72 passes at the track and clutch is as good as new.
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eklipse636
Needs a life
ZX-14
Posts: 6046
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posted September 14, 2006 07:05 AM
i wish i had the luxery of taking off of work to go watch him but the shop is a hour away from the house/where i work.
____________
Best: 60ft 1.351 1/8 5.68 mph 123.98 1/4
8.89 mph 151.32
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iflyphi
Zone Head
Posts: 542
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posted September 14, 2006 07:50 AM
Get the Kawasaki service manual and read it when you have a chance. When you finally get a place where you can work on the bike, it will be a big help. This bike is a major PITA to work on until you get used to it, then its just a PITA.
I'll be switching to mobil 1 once I get my billet oil pan.
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