WARP12
Novice Class
Posts: 31
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posted May 10, 2006 06:15 PM
0-5000 Rpm Restriction
As stated before on this site, my 14 pulls better under 5000 rpm when its cold. As soon as it warms up it is quite dead until about 6000 rpm. Has anyone come up with a fix. I know there not many 14s out there but im just ready to uncork thiss puppy. Also, how does the bike react to an aftermarket pipe ?
  
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 10, 2006 06:44 PM
Patience grasshopper...patience...give it time...
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FYYFF!!!
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 10, 2006 11:41 PM
The mixture is richer when the engine is cold. This points to one possible cause of the lack of grunt under 5000rpm, set very lean to go through emissions testing. Going to have a look at this when I get mine on the dyno'.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 11, 2006 12:45 AM
Does this bike have cats?
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 11, 2006 01:52 AM
Yep
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 11, 2006 01:53 AM
Picture borrowed, probably without permission.. 
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 11, 2006 03:44 AM
Thanks
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famous1
Expert Class
Posts: 402
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posted May 11, 2006 03:50 AM
quote:
The mixture is richer when the engine is cold. This points to one possible cause of the lack of grunt under 5000rpm, set very lean to go through emissions testing. Going to have a look at this when I get mine on the dyno'.
this should be an easy fix....... need to start by finding out where the ecm gets it temp reading from.....
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kawasaki_rick
Zone Head
Posts: 512
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posted May 11, 2006 03:59 AM
Would this work?
I was wondering if this would work. Unhook temp switch or put a resistor in the wire so the bike thinks its cold all the time. Just a thought.
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bigbore4
Zone Head
Posts: 806
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posted May 11, 2006 04:36 AM
At some point the ecm would figure out what's happening and go into a limp in mode or limited function. I suppose you could toggle it and only use it when required? I'm sure some of the tech guys are already looking for a fix.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 11, 2006 04:54 AM
quote:
quote:
The mixture is richer when the engine is cold. This points to one possible cause of the lack of grunt under 5000rpm, set very lean to go through emissions testing. Going to have a look at this when I get mine on the dyno'.
this should be an easy fix....... need to start by finding out where the ecm gets it temp reading from.....
My 2003 'Busa was the same, set by the factory to run lean at low rev's. When we changed the exhaust cans for less restricted ones the Guru on the dyno re-set the mixture , right through the rev' range, using a Yosh Box. It made a big difference, the pick-up from low rev's was smooth and there were no pops and bangs on the overrun.
I wonder if this can be done with the Kawasaki fuel injection, anyone know ?
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 11, 2006 05:11 AM
My 04 Busa pulled hardest in the 0-5k range with the original cans...once I changed the cans and added the PC3/Airbox mod/ filter...I lost some TQ in that range but picked it up much more in the 5K+ range. As far as I know, there is/was zero restriction from factory...it pulled very, very hard in the stock setup in that range. This has always been one of the issues with the Busa and that's why people crash these things -- power delivery was brutal right from the start and tight cornering always required either feathring the throttle or clutching to avoid the RW from kicking out, still, I would rather have the unrestricted powerband below 5k.
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FYYFF!!!
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 11, 2006 06:19 AM
quote:
My 04 Busa pulled hardest in the 0-5k range with the original cans...once I changed the cans and added the PC3/Airbox mod/ filter...I lost some TQ in that range but picked it up much more in the 5K+ range. As far as I know, there is/was zero restriction from factory...it pulled very, very hard in the stock setup in that range. This has always been one of the issues with the Busa and that's why people crash these things -- power delivery was brutal right from the start and tight cornering always required either feathring the throttle or clutching to avoid the RW from kicking out, still, I would rather have the unrestricted powerband below 5k.
The factory power restriction on the Hayabusa is in the lower gears, that's what the ECU uses the gear position data for. The timing is retarded at low rev's in the lower gears to give a more gentle power delivery and less chance of coming to grief. In sixth it restricts the top end to 300kph or 186mph. Hence the popularity of Ivan's little TRE device, which kids it into thinking it's in fifth all the time.
I fitted a TRE to my 'Busa and you can certainly tell the difference with wheelies straight off the throttle ( no clutch abuse ) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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fullzx12r
Zone Head
French Guy
Posts: 864
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posted May 11, 2006 08:57 PM
the TRE of ivan is it the solution ???????????
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/tre.htm
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zx-12r 01'
zzr 1400 06'
hayabusa 08'
zzr 1400 12'
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 11, 2006 09:23 PM
Only if the ignition timing is the problem. I suspect we will have to go deeper than just timing to fix the "problem".
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 12, 2006 12:02 AM
I'm more interested in top speed events, got one coming up at the end of the month. I have been enquiring about derestriction and this is the state of play, as far as I can determine.
Ivan is currently working on his TRE-08 for the ZX-14 and Rob Muzzy on his Bonneville box. I also enquired at Nikko Racing, who make the G-Pack, they don't have anything ready for the ZX-14 yet. Don't know if there are any other players.
There is a bigger market from 1/4 milers than top speed riders and all the goodies currently available seem to satisfy this sector of the market.
MCN claim there is a method of overriding the top speed restrictor on a one-off basis. I might have to give it a try.
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Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles
2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)
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zxbob
Pro
Posts: 1692
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posted May 12, 2006 03:08 AM
I read alot of whats being said for power under 5 grand, different reasons and how
to get the timing back up. I do think Kawasaki did it in part for emissions but most
of you are missing the biggest factor ...........
"Fuel"
These things are 12:1 motors, your not gonna get pump gas with enough octane.
Then, at low RPM its gonna ping if you rap the throttle to fast.
Just
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Good parts aint cheap and cheap parts aint good !
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ZXLNT
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted May 12, 2006 03:11 AM
Bob my 1270 has close to 13.5:1 compression and I run it every single day on pump gas. The ZX14 isn't gonna be any different..
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EASY
Expert Class
Posts: 183
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posted May 12, 2006 03:56 AM
Not only is the timing involved, but the secondary throttles are controlled by the ecu. So even if you found a way to bypass the timing issue, you still have to fool the ecu into opening the other set of butterflys. This is not going to be an easy fix.
I am kinda getting used to it. Fairly easy to get into the meat of the powerband. Its just a little suprising at first--wha---I thought this thing had 1352 cc's.
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 12, 2006 05:58 AM
quote:
These things are 12:1 motors, your not gonna get pump gas with enough octane.
Then, at low RPM its gonna ping if you rap the throttle to fast.
BS. Other sportbikes run just fine on pump gas with similar compression ratios.
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fastestbusaaround
Needs a life
I eat Fish...
Posts: 7889
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posted May 12, 2006 06:01 AM
I am told by Brock that anything over 87 octane KILLS power...I have my 10R on the Dyno with 94 in it right now and am going to run it with 87 to see what the difference is...
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FYYFF!!!
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salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
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posted May 12, 2006 06:46 AM
I have my 10R on the Dyno with 94 in it right now and am going to run it with 87 to see what the difference is...
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Preventing engine detonations on the high compression of the 10R is the reason for 91-91 octane usage. Lower octane gives more power I see it as prohibitive. Not worth the risk I guess...
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Salsa1
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TJ
Zone Head
Posts: 604
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posted May 12, 2006 06:50 AM
quote:
I am told by Brock that anything over 87 octane KILLS power...I have my 10R on the Dyno with 94 in it right now and am going to run it with 87 to see what the difference is...
That sounds pretty silly. All the racers are using 105+ octane fuel. What is the thinking behind a less efficient burn making more power?
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted May 12, 2006 07:05 AM
quote:
That sounds pretty silly. All the racers are using 105+ octane fuel. What is the thinking behind a less efficient burn making more power?
Higher octane DOES NOT equate to more efficient burning. It simply makes a fuel less likely to detonate, burn uncontrollably on its own. Brock is correct, as long as the threshold of detonation is not crossed, the fuel with the lowest octane should make for the best combustion and power. Going over the threshold, however, results in detonation and peak cylinder pressures that cans cause serious harm to the engine. Because Brock is working in a controlled environment, he's able to closely monitor for the presence of detonation and not risk engine damage, not something you can easily do on the track.
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Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted May 12, 2006 07:21 AM
quote:
Bob my 1270 has close to 13.5:1 compression and I run it every single day on pump gas. The ZX14 isn't gonna be any different..
VERY TRUE! I also run my 14:1 1270 on 91 Pump Gas w/ +5 advance, runs very well. Of course it has a proper map to go with this. 
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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